99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

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99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

GrossPolluter
Customer came in yesterday with a 99 Mitsubishi mirage, it passed emissions and the visual. Underhood label has a timing spec 5*, does not state that it was not adjustable and it is equipped with a distributor. So we failed it  because it measured 10*.

The shop next door did the repairs, new timing belt, new water pump and told me he could not adjust the timing, it would not go any lower than 10*. He looked up the specs in Mitchell All-Demand and has a book with Mitchell emission book both states 10* for a 1.5L. I told him that we follow the specs from the underhood label, if the label is missing then we use other resources like the ECSA book. We use Motor and the specs are 5*, not adjustable. I know the book is not always right. I

Is this a legit FAIL? WhI was taught that if the label matches the engine, we use that information for the inspections. If not, use other sources.  
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

Tony140
I saw many mitsu car v6 engine with spect on the emission label is 5*BTDC. But when I check the timing at idle and the real timing is 10-12*BTDC. The books also show timing computer controled. I look at the ig-dist adjusting slot and found they are original, not been adjusted or moved. Many of them have the same reading when I checked with timing light. So I believe the base timing is correct. I just do not know what I should ground to check the timing so I can get 5*BTDC. No info found online neither in the books (Mitchell or Motor books). So I just check timing box as non-adjustable. However the tech could move the ig-dist, I think so. I never check that timing could be adjusting or changing when adjusting the ig-dist. If you see timing at idle and timing reading around 10-12*btdc. It should be ok and I would check in the timing box as none adjustable. Many Mitsubishi V6 with spect 5*BTDC will have timing reading at 10-12*BTDC.
If any one know the correct way how to check ig-timing on those Mitsubishi V6 engine, Please share.
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

FiendFX
In reply to this post by GrossPolluter
Timing is N/A
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

barrym95838
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tony140
Tony140,

Here's an example, from a '95 Diamante SOHC:

It's a tan color, and needs to be grounded to check base timing.  There are other single wire connectors nearby on some Mitsus that do other things, like fuel pump prime and tachometer, so I typically use an incandescent test light first, so nothing gets shorted.

barrym95838
EO144107

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

FiendFX
Never thought of using a test light. That's a good idea.
007
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

007
IGNITION TIMING CHECK


Before inspection, set the vehicles in the following condition.
Engine coolant temperature: 80 - 95°C (176 - 203°F)
Lights, electric cooling fan and all accessories: OFF
Transaxle: Neutral (P range on vehicles with A/T)
Connect the scan tool to the date link connector.
Set up a timing light.
Start the engine and run at idle.
Check that the idle speed is at approx. 700 r/min.
Select the "item No. 17" of the actuator test on the scan tool.
Check that basic ignition timing is within the standard value. Standard value: 5°BTDC ±3°
If the basic ignition timing is outside the standard value, check the MFI components by referring to, Powertrain Management, Testing and Inspection.
Press the clear key of the scan tool (select force-activating cancel mode), and cancel the actuator test.
NOTE: If it is not canceled, force-activation continues for 27 minutes. Do not drive the vehicle in this condition, or the engine could be damaged.



Check the actual ignition timing is at the standard value. Standard value: Approx. 10°BTDC
NOTE: Ignition timing is variable within about ±7° , even under normal operating.


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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

GrossPolluter
In reply to this post by FiendFX
I don't understand why N/A? Underhood label shows a timing spec, it DOES NOT specify that the timing is NOT ADJUSTABLE. I was told that if it shows a timing spec with a distributor, check the timing.  

Those of you that answered N/A, can you tell me why its Not applicable?
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

Itseasy
Its not adjustable, there is no slot on the dist, also the only way to put it on base timing is to use a scanner, not a code reader, there is no connector to ground on this year make and model, I had this issue before, the guy that did the timing belt is right if your the testing tech and you put your light on it you will never get 5 degrees unless you put it in base mode with a big dollar scanner, like 007 posted all the steps. Michell on demand has the steps to check it, then it says not adjustable, just checkable.  
If you just use the underhood label for timing you will notice alot of DIS give a spec, but dont say if its adjustable or not, and im sure you enter N/A. I now all this for a fact because im a repair tech, I can see how this can be confusing unless you been there done that. I heard that on the new rule when DAD kicks in all of obd2 are N/A for timing and this problem is history
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

barrym95838
Administrator
Words of wisdom from the dearly-departed Accused:

http://stop-the-star-program.3084.x6.nabble.com/2001-NISSAN-MAXIMA-DIS-book-and-under-hood-label-say-timing-15-tp5006284p5006295.html;cid=1384922053708-559

Additional commentary from yours truly:

http://stop-the-star-program.3084.x6.nabble.com/2001-NISSAN-MAXIMA-DIS-book-and-under-hood-label-say-timing-15-tp5006284p5006299.html

barrym95838
EO144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

FiendFX
In reply to this post by GrossPolluter
OBD 2 Nissans with COP has timing spec printed on the hood. It doesn't mean it's adjustable. 98-00 Honda civic and 98-01 Honda CRV, there are no timing spec underhood, but timing is adjustable. Are you confused now? lol
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

sDBigdogg88
In reply to this post by 007
Be careful with checking the ignition timing on Japanese cars with the information that the scanner is displaying on the screen at that time.

The vehicle computer is often times showing you what we call "Placement Data" which is the assigned value the ECM wants to "see" at that specific running condition, rather than what the real time actual ignition timing really is should you take out your timing light and visually check it by eye.

Think of it this way, on a 2001 Nissan truck with your Nissan scan tool (Consult) hooked up as you are standing in front of a warmed up running vehicle at idle, the data stream will tell you the present ignition timing is at 10 degrees BTDC, however when you reach down and gently turn the distributor with your hand, the ignition timing is most certainly changing, however, the data stream information still reads 10 degrees.

This is what the computer wants to see for the fuel strategy which includes a lot of other things all at the same time like, calculated load, throttle angle, RPM, etc, but since you physically moved the distributor, it really is at maybe 21 degrees BTDC, but you won't know that unless you whip out your trusty timing light that is battle scarred from being hit by rotating fan blades from getting too close, or being dropped on the floor a gazillion times.

So to protect your backside and your license, unless you have personal and accurate knowledge otherwise, take the extra 3 minutes to do a timing check with your light instead of trusting the data you see on some scan tool screen.

Just my dos centavos.
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

NO SCORE
In reply to this post by GrossPolluter
This same situation has been disputed and gone to referee. Its been declared , not adjustable.
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Re: 99 Mitsubishi mirage timing

SMOG 1
N/A for timing being adjustable ,but if you want to fail it for base timing out of specs then its on you. Base timing 10btdc