BAR Studying OIS Data

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BAR Studying OIS Data

kfworry
A reliable source who is Not employed by the BAR, but has an inside story, that the BAR is
carefully Studying OIS Data, which could eventually lead to some vehicles subjected
to OIS, to have an ASM tailpipe test.
I say it is about time BAR realize OIS is NOT perfect.
007
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

007
I heard from a very reliable source that said that  roadside testings were confirming cars were passing OIS and failing tail pipe and they are talking about all 2006 and older going on dyno.
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

My Name is Nobody
In reply to this post by kfworry
kfworry wrote
A reliable source who is Not employed by the BAR, but has an inside story, that the BAR is
carefully Studying OIS Data, which could eventually lead to some vehicles subjected
to OIS, to have an ASM tailpipe test.
 
It has already been in the (2014) Law & Regs.  See §44012
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=HSC&division=26.&title=&part=5.&chapter=5.&article=2.
kfworry wrote
I say it is about time BAR realize OIS is NOT perfect.
ARB and BAR knew about this.  See attached

transitioning_to_obd_only_im_ARB_White_Paper_March_2009.pdf

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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

My Name is Nobody
My Name is Nobody wrote
ARB and BAR knew about this.  See attached

transitioning_to_obd_only_im_ARB_White_Paper_March_2009.pdf
And don't let the BAR leads you to believe that the BAR 97 ASM test is superior.  It's not!

See page B-3

It's a mediocre emission tester at best.  It gives us an opportunity to earn a living, no more, no less.

I'm out!
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Karupt
In reply to this post by 007
Oh my , and here I thought it was just "bad, cheating, techs" that were the cause of these roadside failures ! What have we all been saying here all along since OIS inception? That it was NOT going to clean up the air . But hey , who are we to be listened to ? WE don't have engineering degrees .
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

none
In reply to this post by My Name is Nobody
My Name is Nobody wrote
My Name is Nobody wrote
ARB and BAR knew about this.  See attached

transitioning_to_obd_only_im_ARB_White_Paper_March_2009.pdf
And don't let the BAR leads you to believe that the BAR 97 ASM test is superior.  It's not!

See page B-3

It's a mediocre emission tester at best.  It gives us an opportunity to earn a living, no more, no less.

I'm out!
That is a very interesting article and should be read by all the people on the many smog forums who are always arguing that BAR97 is so good that ALL cars should still be tested on that rather than OIS.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Best Answer I Can Give
 Ok Mr. Mouth. We the AQMD\BAR are TIRED of the crap you say. You make the F ing Test.

 What would you tell them the test should have? The powers that be ask you.

 Idle test. Just one of the many I would have.
 Life will give you rope. It will give you enough to make a ladder to pull yourself up, or an noose to hang yourself with.
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Johnnybeme
In reply to this post by none
None

I regularly pass vehicles with 200+ thousands of miles (OIS of course)! Your are saying these vehicles are just as clean as when new? Really. Just cause a computer model is complete does not mean they are clean. My common sense says different. We no longer verify emissions, we simply verify that the computer has control and the assumption is they are in compliance with the program that we execute. Tailpipe verification has been deemed unnecessary. I did not make the rule.

JM
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

none
Johnnybeme wrote
None

I regularly pass vehicles with 200+ thousands of miles (OIS of course)! Your are saying these vehicles are just as clean as when new? Really. Just cause a computer model is complete does not mean they are clean. My common sense says different. We no longer verify emissions, we simply verify that the computer has control and the assumption is they are in compliance with the program that we execute. Tailpipe verification has been deemed unnecessary. I did not make the rule.

JM
I am saying that the BAR 97 machine is just a rather inexpensive "computer model" of what IT THINKS is coming out the tail pipe.

When everything was going on BAR 97 I have had on a few occasions, one of my BAR 97 machine would fail a late model car for NOx and I could run it on the other machine and it would pass with average numbers. Then I would run a gas calibration on them and everything would show it was fine.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Johnnybeme
Let us go back to regulation. NOX HC CO are the regulated pollutants. When OIS says complete monitors and no DTC it assumes engineered result that was calculated and and verified by FTP. NOX cannot be monitored without load, so we need a dyno. HC and CO are a result of stoichiometry. The gas bench we use is fine for all these measurements but the process is far from the FTP condition. So we do this. When a vehicle reaches 10,000 miles a baseline test is given to every vehicle. At determined mileages we give the SAME test to the same vehicle measuring the different cut-points and allowing a predetermined amount of headroom. So maybe a fifty percent increase in emissions or a failed test. Then the vehicle is repaired to a new baseline and the process starts over. All data is scientific and live data (tailpipe). It really does not matter what the test becomes as long as it is consistent and complete. I would like to see a hybrid ASM with an idle test in addition to the usual visual and functional checks. I would like to see the ASM more like FTP where a road simulation including deceleration, and to get away from the steady load and timed testing. Too frustrating. Testing based on mileage, baseline cut-points, a more consistent ASM with idle test, more repairs and cleaner air.

JM
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

D Rochells 150861
Maybe we should just ditch cars altogether. If everyone had to walk their fat asses everywhere we could solve the obesity problem.

Trying to keep the air clean while using ICE's that we continually try to make cleaner is like being a heroin addict who designs drugs that let them consume more heroin safely.
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Kevin
Both systems are flawed
EO/EI/BA certifications ASE Master Certified Chrysler Master Certified Ford Certified Wyotech Graduate Sequoia Institute Graduate 20+ year experience
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Re: BAR Studying OIS Data

Jeff
In reply to this post by kfworry
 OIS will pass a car with a bad Rhodium  bed in the cat.
 AND..
 A volvo with a running air pump (stuck on always)...will NOT set a code and will emit 2000 + ppm Nox.
 Check it out for yourself!