BAR on me about removing an engine cover

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BAR on me about removing an engine cover

manboobs
Hey all, hoping someone can help me here. Failed a vehicle for broken EVAP component under the engine cover.  Customer went to BAR and I am being asked to print out the material that states an engine cover needs to be removed for inspection. I cannot find it for the life of me. I swear I have read something from BAR that states engine covers are to be removed.  Thank you so much in advance!!!
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

Kevin
So you had a bureau inspector come and request that you print out the procedure or why are you concerned about this what happened?. Because yes we have to remove the engine cover or to perform the inspection.
EO/EI/BA certifications ASE Master Certified Chrysler Master Certified Ford Certified Wyotech Graduate Sequoia Institute Graduate 20+ year experience
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by manboobs
There is nothing conclusive, just a bunch of gibberish that implies we should. The best evidence in favor of removal is on the training videos for diesel, the dude clearly says we should take some crap off a cummins to see the pcv.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

manboobs
In reply to this post by Kevin
Yes an inspector came on my day off and told my boss I need to print the documentation that states engine covers are to be removed. I have to provide this document when he returns (apparently tomorrow). Was hoping someone here has a link or source where it states engine cover is to be removed. Thanks again
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

Best Answer I Can Give
 Tell him to pint out where it tells you not to.
 Life will give you rope. It will give you enough to make a ladder to pull yourself up, or an noose to hang yourself with.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

SoCaL92626
In reply to this post by manboobs
What is the year, make and model of the vehicle and what was the broken component and what did you enter in for the "fail"?
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

barrym95838
Administrator
In reply to this post by manboobs
It has been drilled into us at every BAR-sponsored update course I've been to that we are not excused from removing dog house covers and beauty covers except in the specific case of EVAP system components.  If I was in your situation, I would state that I removed the cover to perform a proper inspection of the PCV system, and the defective EVAP component was exposed that way, making it impossible for me to state under the penalty of perjury that the EVAP system had no defects.  I wouldn't fight it any further over an inspection fee refund, but I would certainly fight it to prevent a citation.

Send the same mofo to me, and I'll fail it too.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by manboobs
manboobs wrote
Hey all, hoping someone can help me here. Failed a vehicle for broken EVAP component under the engine cover.  Customer went to BAR and I am being asked to print out the material that states an engine cover needs to be removed for inspection. I cannot find it for the life of me. I swear I have read something from BAR that states engine covers are to be removed.  Thank you so much in advance!!!
was it a purge line or a vacuum line year make and model would help
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
Tell him to pint out where it tells you not to.
i think the rep gots him, specifically because he failed an EVAP component. if it was a PCV or "other" component fail he would have been ok.

this is what i got from the book word for word, and how i would apply it to this specific situation.

Fuel Evaporative System (EVAP) - Gasoline
Inspectors are not required to perform disassembly of the vehicle to inspect the fuel evaporative
system
. Visual inspection of the fuel cap is considered part of the Fuel Cap Integrity Test
detailed in Section 1.4.5, and therefore is not required on 1996 and newer model year vehicles.


my opinion unless you heard a vacuum leak then removed the cover to complete your inspection. its kind of a dick move and going over board on it.

 yes we remove them on astro vans box vans ect but only because its covering just about everything EGR, pcv, most of the vapor hoses ect.

im not removing shit on newer lexus, infinitys that cover the whole bay, too much risk breaking shit. if i hear a big ass vacuum leak, ill lift the cover off, its not in eye site its not my job to go threw the whole routing system to ' DIAGNOSE" the issue. PASS and move on.

     
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

D Rochells 150861
Yeah you would still need to remove the cover to perform a thorough visual inspection of the other BS so if he saw the EVAP while doing that he is correct. And it is a VISUAL inspection so stop using your ears.

Really though, BAR just needs to hire some people who can write things in a clear concise manner, after they figure out EXACTLY what they want us to do during an inspection. AND then get all the PR Derps and Refs to stop making up their own version.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

No One
In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
fucking lost hahahahahahahahahahahhaha do this right here. If he does, then put the cover back on and pass the car. Write on the cert that you were instructed by BAR rep to pass car even though an evap line is defective.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

barrym95838
Administrator
I wouldn't pass that vehicle unless it was repaired to my satisfaction.  Period.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

none
In reply to this post by BasicTech678
"are not REQUIRED to remove..." and "are not to remove..." sound like two different things to me.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

D Rochells 150861
That doesn't work either None, otherwise we could tear down an engine in search of a modified camshaft if we so felt like it.

I think we shoud all just agree the book as written does not work in the real world and we and the customers deserve better.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

tampered
In reply to this post by manboobs
Is there anything that prohibits disassembly on EVAP visual inspections? All I can find is language that it is not required.  

Tell them that the information they want you to print is in the CALARC forums, or the IMRC meeting transcripts.

Or under your left nut. They need to put down the crack pipe.
If everyone fixed their own cars, my car would be fixed... but not very well!
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

Thick6
In reply to this post by manboobs
So what year and engine was this? I remove engine covers all day.  
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

Best Answer I Can Give
 No where you will find that a "Cover" needs to be removed, No where will you find that a "Cover" dose not have to be removed.

 You open a hood and you have removed a "Cover"
Some vehicles you "Remove the Cover" to plug into a DLC.
When you pull a Timing connector, are you not removing a "Cover" The plastic is hiding a wire that effects the timing.

 Ask a Marine what a "Cover" is. It's his hat. It covers the Marine. (Sir YES Sir)

 The PR is blowing smoke up his ass. He is trying to look good to his boss. Look I got the money back from the cheating person doing the inspection.
It doesn't matter that you did a proper inspection, he looked out for the consumer.

 You pulled a cover to do a inspection on Emission Components. You found a defective part. You are lowering the HC foot print of that vehicle, and some PR wants to write you up.

He writes you up file a complaint against him.
YOU DID THE JOB YOU WERE PAID TO DO.
 Life will give you rope. It will give you enough to make a ladder to pull yourself up, or an noose to hang yourself with.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

defective
In reply to this post by BasicTech678
"I removed the engine cover to inspect the PCV system, and also found that the EVAP system line was defective."  

Whats the cost to fix an EVAP line anyway?  This is ridiculous.  I had a customer fail a complaint against me once too.  I passed her car when she was trying to fail it for retirement.  That case got dropped.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

kilativ
In reply to this post by manboobs
Be prepared for undercover run on one or two cars. Happened to me after customer complaint. First PR came to my shop, told me there was a complaint against me, than within a month I got two undercover cars.
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Re: BAR on me about removing an engine cover

nanz1414
In reply to this post by manboobs
i been looking through the bar website. i havent found any statement about engine covers. but i was reading about a 84 motorhome with the timing out of spec...  if the engine cover was required to be removed on the motorhome.. why would you not remove the engine cover on a car to do a proper inspection.


       FACTUAL BACKGROUND
A. Undercover Operation June 8, 2015
19. On June 8, 2015, an undercover operator for the Bureau (operator) conducted a
documented undercover vehicle operation at East Bay Smog to confirm compliance with the
terms and conditions of Respondent probation and the Smog Check Program. The Bureau vehicle
had the ignition timing adjusted ten degrees further advanced from the factory specification of six
degrees Before Top Dead Center (BTDC). A Bureau operator traveled to Respondent East Bay
Smog's facility and requested a smog inspection from licensed Smog Check Inspector Hugo
Camacho for a 1984 Chevrolet Motor Home.


Pass/Fail Criteria: To pass inspection, the required emission control system(s) must be complete
and installed in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer’s original California or Federal certified
configuration, or, when applicable, in accordance with a CARB aftermarket configuration. If any
required emission control systems are found to be tampered or defective, the vehicle shall fail the
inspection. For tampered and defective definitions, see section 1.3.5.
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