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DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

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DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Joeinpb
DAD obd2 port testing for 2000 and up starts this summer. AB2289 states that it could have already started January 1 2013. The Beta inspection system field testing begins
7/16/2013. Official DAD inspections begin is still TBD at this point.

What do you guys know about this programs?

some things I have learned.

1 DAD obd2 utilizes high speed internet. It Is a separate device that most be purchased.
The eis bar 97 will not be used for 2000 and up at all.  Shops must have a computer an
extra printer and high speed internet. DAD will buy certs on its own and have a transfer fee.

2. 58% of the Smog fleet is 2000 and up. 1976 to 1999 is 42 %

3. Station who do 2000 and up smogs will be allowed to repair all years of smog failures including tailpipe emissions.

4. An auto parts store, or  oil change place, can do DAD smog tests, also can do repairs if they have the proper licenses.

Any other facts anyone can share?  This isnt really a thread to complain. Just like a lot of us were unprepared or uneducated about how STAR works early on. I think it is a good idea to get some information out there. So some of us are not blindsided by this.

What do you know?, what do you wanna know?
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Reactor
Auto parts store can do repairs? How?
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Joeinpb

1. Can an auto parts store perform the OBD focused test on model year 2000 and newer vehicles?

Yes, provided that the auto parts store is registered with BAR as an Automotive Repair Dealer, is
licensed as a Smog Check station, and employs a licensed Smog Check Inspector.
The proposed regulations also require the OIS to be used within a building.

2.Will stations that only have the OBD Inspection System (OIS) be allowed to repair 1999 model
year and older vehicles?

Yes. The BAR 97 EIS is only required to inspect certain vehicles.BAR does not require it to repair
vehicles. Refer to the “Equipment and Reference Material Requirements”
table, located in the new Smog Check Manual.
Since accepted trade standards specify how repairs are performed and verified, the trade
standards shall dictate what repair equipment is required for a particular repair. Depending on
the trade standard, a BAR 97 EIS or other tailpipe emissions measurement tool (e.g., a 5 gas
analyzer) may or may not be necessary to perform or verify certain repairs.
All stations must possess the tools and reference materials for the types of vehicles being
inspected and/or repaired. For example, when repairing diesel vehicles, a tachometer/dwell
meter, propane enrichment kit, an ignition analyzer and timing light are not
required.
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Just another shop owner
In reply to this post by Joeinpb
  I'm stupid what does DAD stand for?

 Here we GO.

 Who will do it, any idiot that took a 2 hour class?
 Will they need a invoice, air pressure check, climb under to look at the Cat.
 Next 2000 you get in check the VIN via OBD, will not read it or it's not there. CLEAN PLUG.
 Had a 05 lotus VIN didn't even come close.


  Lack of knowledge by those making the rules, scary.

 I say and always will say, This is going Centerlized Testing.  BIG MONEY. And it will fail.

  The crime is, our childrens, children will suffer. That is what realy pisses me off. You are going to hurt a child because of your fu^^ing greed. Go to hell big money. I will be dead. My lungs as a kid were hurt because of lack of knowledge. You will hurt a child for money.

 
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Joeinpb
1."DAD" is an acronym for Data Acquisition Device.

2."Who will do it, any idiot that took a 2 hour class? "

At the minimum you would need an Inspector License or a Repair License under the new Licensing Restructure.



3."Will they need a invoice, air pressure check, climb under to look at the Cat. "

YES


4."Next 2000 you get in check the VIN via OBD, will not read it or it's not there. CLEAN PLUG. "


If a vehicle’s computer is changed and the VIN does not match the vehicle VIN,will the vehicle fail inspection?
Initially, the wrong VIN will not cause the vehicle to fail its
Smog Check inspection, but it may  cause a failure in the future.

5. "Had a 05 lotus VIN didn't even come close. "

What information will the Data Acquisition Device (DAD) pull from the vehicle being inspected?


The DAD will collect all available emissions control system and vehicle identification information
as requested by the State server.

As you know the technology exists to do this now with certain vehicles using our BAR 97 (Mode 9).
It is RARELY ever requested. I have heard of running that mode maybe 4 times in my life.

6. "I say and always will say, This is going Centralized Testing.  BIG MONEY. And it will fail. "

I cannot disagree with that. It's a matter of time. I expect the landscape of Smog to change a lot by the first quarter of 2014.


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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Just another shop owner
 Thanks. Me thinks you have been around the block a few times to.
007
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

007
3 months ago, i was at a BAR meeting about STAR and asked specifically about what type of building would be required to do these inspections. In Neveada they have booths you pull up to and smog the car, no building. I was told that you will be required to still do the inspection inside a building with 3 walls, like the current test requires. We will wait and see if this holds true. It would surely suck to see cars going thru the mc donalds drive through and ordering a number 1 meal and a smog check.
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

kilativ
It is just some articles from IMRC Report"Transitioning Away from Smog Check Tailpipe Emission
Testing in California for OBD II Equipped Vehicles"


Impact on Remaining Fleet, Test Equipment, and Smog Check Stations

Lastly, an OBD III based design could drastically reduce the number of newer model
year vehicles that show up at Smog Check stations.  This change could ultimately result
in the need for fewer inspection stations within the state while still maintaining the same
demand for repair stations.  This too should be considered in future program changes as
the current program structure allows for inspection only stations as well as inspection
and repair stations, but does not allow for repair only stations.

Benefits of OBD II Only Inspections

The primary benefits of eliminating Smog Check tailpipe testing for OBD II equipped
vehicles are the consumer benefits of lower inspection costs and reduced inspection
times.  Downloading the necessary information from vehicle on-board computers takes
fewer than five minutes.  A shorter test requires less labor time for inspectors, resulting
in lower inspection costs, and greater convenience for motorists.  Further, the inspection
does not require the use of expensive test equipment such as the chassis dynamometer
and emission analyzers that are currently used for Smog Check tailpipe tests.  The
Bureau of Automotive Repair estimates that the hardware costs for a BAR97 Smog
Check analyzer and dynamometer are approximately $28,000 to $33,000.  Calibration
gases and maintenance also result in significant ongoing operating costs (e.g.,
dynamometer maintenance contracts often are $1,500 to $2,000 per year).  By contrast,
equipment necessary to carry out an OBD II inspection can be purchased for as little as
$2,000 and requires essentially no maintenance beyond periodic software updates
(tailpipe emission analyzers also require software updates).  Therefore, the price of an
OBD II inspection should be significantly less than the $30 to $60 currently being
charged for a Smog Check inspection.  The California Inspection and Maintenance
Review Committee has reported that OBD only inspection costs in other states are as
low as $11 per test.

Clean Scanning

• The communication protocol that the vehicle uses.  This includes SAE J1850,
ISO 9141-2, ISO 14230-4 (Key Word Protocol 2000), and ISO 15765-4 (CAN
Protocol).  Some of these protocols permit the use of options that effectively
create distinct sub-protocols.
• The readiness profile of the vehicle.  This provides information on which of the 11
readiness indicators are “supported” by the vehicle.  The indicator profile is most
often affected by whether or not the vehicle is equipped with secondary air or
exhaust gas recirculation.
• Module ID’s and addresses.  Vehicle computer networks typically connect
multiple computer modules together, including the engine control module, the
transmission control module, and often times other modules.  The manufacturer
assigns an ID or address for each of these modules.  There is no required
convention for how these module ID’s are assigned, so they typically vary
between manufacturers and even between models within a manufacturer’s
product line.
• Parameter Identification Count (PID count).  This value can be calculated by the
inspection equipment from information reported by the on-board computer and
indicates how many parameters are available for downloading through the
vehicle’s data stream.  The value varies for different vehicle makes and models.  
The data parameters identified above can be compared to known values for each
vehicle being inspected.  The comparison can take place while the vehicle is being 8
inspected so that discrepancies can be immediately addressed, or it can take place
during post-inspection processing of the data.  For the latter, discrepancies could trigger
enforcement investigations against specific inspection stations or inspectors.  Most
states performing OBD inspections already collect this data and are successfully using it
to identify fraudulent tests and take action against the inspectors and/or stations without
the need to do further undercover observations or evidence gathering.
Newer vehicles include additional sources of information, which can go as far as
positively confirming whether or not the downloaded data is from the vehicle purportedly
being inspected.
• Calibration ID (Cal ID), a number assigned by the manufacturer to identify the
software calibration of the vehicle.  This ID is usually unique to a particular
vehicle model.
• Calibration Verification Number (CVD).  This value is computed based on
contents of the on-board computer’s software.  It is typically unique to a specific
CAL ID for a particular vehicle model, or even at the sub-model level.
• Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).  Newer model year vehicles store the VIN
electronically in the on-board computer.  This value uniquely identifies the test
vehicle, and can be compared to the VIN on the registration renewal form.
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Just another shop owner
 I hope the last guy can type. Me two fingers.

 Everthing the that was stated is well and good, ON PAPER.

 Real life is not paper. We have all tested vehicles that pass the light, fail the dyno.


   WHY WILL THEY NOT LISTEN!  money.
007
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

007
I see way more cars with check engine lights on (and yes we test them and fail them) that pass the emission part of the test, then I see cars failing tail pipe with no light on. In fact, I can not even recall a vehicle that failed tail pipe without a check engine light on, accept Cadiallacs that have a ridiculous low HC standard of 28. and they fail at 35. and the light should not be on with HC readings of 35.
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

barrym95838
Administrator
This post was updated on .
007 wrote
I see way more cars with check engine lights on (and yes we test them and fail them) that pass the emission part of the test, then I see cars failing tail pipe with no light on.
It's about 50/50 here in my neighborhood, but state-wide it's about 75/25.  In 2011, it happened 70,767 times for cars alone (tail-pipe fail, OBD2 pass).  Tail pipe fails with no MIL happen at my shop all the time.  Most of them are OBD1 or OBD0, but quite a few are OBD2 as well.  Some of them even have all monitors set, with no pending DTCs.  The only reason that I know this is because I am asked to diagnose them from time to time.  That's when the vehicle owners decide not to take a few swings at it first, with the help of their brother-in-law, Pick-n-Pull, and AutoZone!

Sincerely,

barrym95838
EO144107

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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Accused
Good stats to view.  If that was broken down to exclude non-OBDII vehicles it would be even more helpful.  

BUT TAKE NOTE....

The upcoming changes will leave tens of thousands of polluting vehicles on the roads.  That is not only tens of thousands of polluting cars but tens of thousands of missed repair dollars and that number will grow exponentially over time.

Tailpipe emissions MATTER.
007
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

007
Tail pipe emissions do matter, I was hoping the state would go to a real test with the IM240. Instead they opted to be followers of the other states program of OBD2 only. What happen to the days California was the leader in how smogs were done around the country. OH ya democrates.
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Re: DAD obd testing starting this Summer our own Q&A

Accused
This is not about the Dems. - Much as I would like to blame them.  This comes from our 4th branch of government and they are worse than R's or D's - they are the unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats that the legislature relies on for recommendations on how to set up a smog program.  Responsibility for this BS lies squarely with CARB and BAR.  

The legislature (both parties) are really too stupid to know the difference.
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