Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

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Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Mike
1994 Toyota 4runner like the one BAR sent to me missing part of the pulse air.
If I dont fail it, the next guy probably will.
Al
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Al
last I was told by BAR, exhaust leaks were not a fail. You better call your local field rep and ask.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

kfworry
You are correct Al.
An exhaust leak alone is not grounds for failing.
It can cause "sample dilution" as we all know where we
cannot proceed with the test anyway.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

justa
Banned User
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

OceanViewTch
i would like to know the correct answer.....fail it...pass it...or pass it to the next tech?  it seems the sample coming from the tailpipe would not be right with and exhaust leak before cat....i would have no problem failing the vehicle if that is what is suppose to be done...i usually tell the customer to get the leak fixed..most the time they just go to the next shop and they test it and pass it making be the bad guy.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Mike
In reply to this post by Mike
Leak was before the 02 sensor
Diluting the actual mixture
Wont that affect emissions?
HC was high.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Jones
In reply to this post by Mike
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Moderator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Mike
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

tampered
Administrator
In reply to this post by kfworry
barrym95838 wrote
An exhaust leak by itself is NOT a sufficient reason for a fail.
It's not?  He said it was before the O2...I thought that'd be a failure.  

kfworry wrote
It can cause "sample dilution" as we all know where we
cannot proceed with the test anyway.
I have a "needle" probe I use for leaks past the CAT/O2...stick it right into the rot and Viola!  No dilution!  
The only thing about wearing a mask that bothers me is that the girls are a lot friendlier.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Moderator
This post was updated on .
tampered wrote
It's not?  He said it was before the O2...I thought that'd be a failure.  
I've been through the licensing renewal process several times, and the citation training process once.  There has almost always been an informal Q&A session at some time or another during those classes.  I'm in the Sacramento area, so the usual pool of instructors have included people like Rocky, Bruce, Marty, and one or two others that escape my memory at the moment.

For some strange reason, interpretation of the rules in SCIP and SCRG come up almost every time (I wonder why?), and that's where I have picked up the following gems, among others that I'll probably remember later:

1)  Do not fail gas caps for a broken or missing top part; perform the leak check and let the results speak for themselves.

2)  Do not fail a late MIL (one that comes on or blinks more than 30 seconds after engine start).  Follow the MIL procedure AFTER ASM or TSI, and don't concern yourself with what it does before then.

3)  Do not fail exhaust leaks, not even the upstream variety.  If you experience dilution or safety issues, abort or reject.  Otherwise, let the emissions test do the dirty work.

It is possible, but not likely, that supporting evidence can be found somewhere in print ... I'll try looking, but I'm not particularly optimistic.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

reactor
In reply to this post by Mike
I usually reject the inspection on cars with exhaust manifold gasket leaks. Don't want to fail them- i tell the customer to fix it and come back.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

K20SI
In reply to this post by Mike
i do them most of the time as long as it dosnt give me a dulation . there is some that come in with  a blown muffler or somthing and i tell them go fix it because it will give me a hard time its not worth it
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Mike
This topic is controversial with the smoke test PCV. You see smoke from PCV, you fail it because blow-by vapor are coming out. Exhaust leak is even worse, HC, CO, and NOx are coming out, shouldn't that be a fail too?
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Mike
Fuel mixture is also affected by the additional o2 being drawn in before the oxygen sensor.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

reactor
In reply to this post by K20SI
Anything after the Cat- i try my best to test: make hole bigger in the pipe or muffler to be able to insert the probe and not get dilution. But in my understanding the part of exhaust that's before the Cat is the Emission Control System and should be intact.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

sandman
with what we techs know, for sure it will affect the mixture if the leak is before primary 02/cat.  I wont fail in that situation because we are not suppose to.  I still run them as is, congratulations if vehicle passes and sorry if it fails.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Citation Addict
In reply to this post by Mike
If it messes with the sample, you can reject it, but I would not fail it.

Remember it has to be:
Missing
Modified
Dissconected
Defective


What category does exhaust leak fit into?
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Mike
Defective.
And can definitely affect emissions.
Maybe this is a gray area.
Some lean toward fail, some toward pass.
Reason to doubt unless its in writing somewhere.
Mike
CalSmogTech.com
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Citation Addict
Would be Defective "F" under Other Emission Related.
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Re: Failed a car for exhaust leak today. Would not have done that two years ago.

Mike
In reply to this post by Mike
Failed another one with an exhaust leak before the o2.
Still not convinced these cars shouldn't fail.
They are dumping raw, unmeasured exhaust into the air, also some of this exhaust can get into the cab, finally the leak is before the o2, anyone can show me in writing why this car shouldn't fail?