For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
44 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

locopoco
I have a question,

I've been a WW machine guy since I opened my business 17 years ago,and with all the complains and the sticky specialized for ESP machines,I'm really on the fence as to,should I go with the WW again? or ESP?

I know WW has it's flaws but god the problems that I read on the ESP sticky,I never knew it existed before,things like:
Gas cap fails calibration.
You're not recommended to turn off the machine cause you'll have problem turning it on!
Scale is finicky.
HC hangups, temperature and humidity problems.

These are some of the problems mentioned before by the guys who have these brand new machines,And I gotta tell you it makes me very uneasy about it, the only problem,I get with mine is NOX sensor every year or two.The major one was my dyno board other than that nothing serious(crossing my finger not to jinx it).

The rent aspect of the ESP is intriguing,because the obvious reason.

I Emailed WW  to see if they offer only the PC drawer upgrade for the analyzer without replacing the whole machine,cause lets be honest the rest of it are the same thing ,they replied there is a plan for it and they'll let me know as soon as it's finalized.
Until then,My question is mainly to the guys who changed from any other machines to ESP.
Did you have any sort of problem since acquiring the machine?
Would you recommend it?
How different it is from WW?

I'm not here to bash ESP,this is my genuine concern and I appreciate if you would comment.

Thanks.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Kriss Vector
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Super Star
In reply to this post by locopoco
My gen 3 ESP is flawless. It's quick to start up and really just has no issues. Some may complain that it is slower than the Gen 2, and it is slower, but not by much. I believe that the issues presented with the gen 3 were with the early versions of the Gen 3. Again, mine is flawless, and I had been using it for a few months now.

The only WW machine I had used was a couple of years ago, it was garbage. I hated that damn machine so much and still do. This is coming from someone who has used SPX, and ESP gen 1-3 BAR97 machines.

I don't know much about the new BAR97 WW has, but if it cannot be leased like the ESP gen 3, I wouldn't go for it. No one knows how much longer until a new program with new machines comes along, and to make a big purchase for vehicles that are coming to the shop less and less, I think is unwise.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

kfworry
In reply to this post by locopoco
I used an ESP Gen 2 when I started June 2006.
I have done 137 test on my new ESP/OPUS Gen 3 since June 20th.
I will say if you are going from a World Wide to ESP/OPUS
you may have a longer "transition" period.
It's a matter of your current level of experience.
I think people are complaining about the ESP/Opus Gen 3
because they do not understand how it works, just my opinion, Okay?
You Must Pay Attention to the monitor and follow the instructions on each menu
To The Letter.
I've picked up a lot of things I can do and I am building a memory bank
in My Brain.
Sure there is "lag time" to print the VIR and so forth.
It's Not that bad guys. Be patient.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

kfworry
In reply to this post by Super Star
Super Star: I wonder why ESP/Opus would invest so much time and money into the Gen 3
if they knew tail pipe testing would go away in the future?
ESP/Opus may know something we in the field do not know. You would think
ESP/Opus lobbied the BAR to keep tail pipe testing for the long run, or they would
loose millions and have a lot of Rental Gen 3's collecting dust.
Remember Motor Homes with a GVWR of 14,050 will continue to be a tail pipe TSI.
I do not see the BAR changing that requirement any time soon.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Best Answer I Can Give
 And just why do you think you have to buy a new machine to keep your STAR? Who has WHO by the short hairs?

 OPUS says Fuck it?
tired, and just not the tired that sleep can fix.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

barrym95838
Administrator
In reply to this post by Super Star
My ESP Gen 3 is NOT flawless, but my complaints are relatively minor.  I have 342 tests (209 pass, 122 fail and 11 abort) since March, and I have only had one real service call, for the gas cap calibration issue.  The ESP tech gave me a hand-held pass/fail cap simulator, and my issue was resolved.

The user interface is a bit awkward and frustrating, but I'm learning to deal with it.  The calibrations are definitely faster, but the double wait for the dyno lift during the inspection is annoying.  And it defaults to more than one fuel cap for the functional.  There are other minor annoyances, but to me they're just that ... minor.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

locopoco
In reply to this post by Super Star
Superstar:
"I don't know much about the new BAR97 WW has, but if it cannot be leased like the ESP gen 3, I wouldn't go for it. No one knows how much longer until a new program with new machines comes along, and to make a big purchase for vehicles that are coming to the shop less and less, I think is unwise."

^^^This is exactly what I'm concerned about purchasing a new machine.
In a good week I maybe do 5-6 BAR 97 vehicles,the rest are OIS. I really don't care about how fast is the printer and I sure as hell can follow the instructions on the monitor and will take my time to learn.
How about calibration,do you guys have problem calibrating the machine?do you get any errors during the test or freezing?

If WW couldn't come up with a PC upgrade only my mind was mostly set to rent an ESP but I wanted to get some input from you guys,Thanks I appreciate it and keep it coming.

 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

locopoco
In reply to this post by barrym95838
...., but the double wait for the dyno lift during the inspection is annoying.  

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107


On WW you just drive on the dyno and start the test,no need to drive off the scale and on it again to weigh the vehicle.

Is this what you refer to as double wait?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by locopoco
how long will you guys hold out before placing an order? ive been waiting and will probably wait untill October to place an order on an esp/opus machine. im not star so not worried about going into January with out bar 97. my spx works great sucks we have to update but its understandable. those with star certification i imagine have already ordered and on a waiting list. back in May/April i heard the wait was around 4 months. im over ww only because the service call response time was so slow in my area central/nothern ca. spx/opus is always under a day and my tech ken is awesome. i told him if he jumps teams which he told me alot of techs did due to opus buying out spx  i would go with ww. before ordering my machine i will be calling my tech to confirm hes not leaving lol.
iha
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

iha
In reply to this post by locopoco
I think the Gen 3 is a downgrade from the previous versions of ESP. The main issue for me is the no power to the DLC ...  and your hunting for POWER. What is ESP thinking? The RPM Pickup for OBD1??? Not long enough cables... What is ESP thinking? I cannot work with only one monitor and to have to call ESP for free support because they are using Display Port? Why is ESP making things so complicated with the Gen 3?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

barrym95838
Administrator
iha wrote
... Not long enough cables... What is ESP thinking? ...
Oh yeah, I totally forgot to add that to my gripe list.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

D Rochells 150861
I swear the sample hose is longer though.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Super Star
In reply to this post by kfworry
What did they invest in? It's all the same technology. There is no breakthrough technology in the Gen 3. It's actually already outdated in computing terms. The operating system is a bogged down version of an older version of windows. I think the only time and money they had to invest in was having the machine certified. This machine is probably cheaper for them to have around because they don't have to send technicians for floppy disk failures and other minor calibration failure issues. The service contract is no longer "optional" as it is included in the machine that is a lease only item. In all, this is just more money for ESP.

As far as a new program, I think there is one coming. If I am not mistaken, the BAR wants the Evap machine to be integrated into the BAR97, and is working on legislation to do so.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

D Rochells 150861
That's why i'm pretty sure it is in fact a rebadged SPX, the user manual even calls the OBD2 box an SPX unit. Further proof is in the raising and lowering of the dyne BS, it looks like the software is ESP and is overriding the need for F2 pressing.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

kfworry
In reply to this post by Super Star
Super Star, yes, eventually BAR will integrate the EVAP with the Gen 3, when is yet to be determined.
Honestly I don't know how ESP/Opus can justify the $17,804.00 CASH price including Tax.
That is 38.7 months of rental at $460 a month, and you Do Not Own It.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

kfworry
Me, I wrote ESP/Opus a $17,804 Check,  Not A Rental.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

none
kfworry wrote
Me, I wrote ESP/Opus a $17,804 Check,  Not A Rental.
I checked on buying it outright but it only came with a one year service contract. After that it was $325/month. W/W was five years at $18,900 but I, for some reason, wanted to stick with ESP.
People are usually shocked when they find out I'm not a very good electrician.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Super Star
In reply to this post by kfworry
I don't see any value in owning a smog machine. I'd rather lease it and not worry about maintaining it. When the time comes to get something else or if I don't need it anymore, I'll give it back. Heck, I have a gen 1 here and I cannot even reuse it as a base for the OIS since we are not allowed to go into it.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: For all the shops with new ESP, BAR 97 machines....

Kriss Vector
In reply to this post by D Rochells 150861
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
123