Functional EGR Testing

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Functional EGR Testing

Hard Nox
As seldom as we must perform Functional EGR Testing on a TSI Smog Check, it still must be done from time to time.

Been doing some reading and reviewing New and Old technical info lately, this topic crossed my mind.

When testing electronic controlled EGR systems I realize the use of a Bi-Directional scanner is in most cases the Best method.

A Bi-Directional scanner may not always be available in the real world.

The use of a tester tester such as Waekon EGR tester does test the valve only.

Smog Check Training video  " Module 8"  recommends the scanner method using a GM vehicle as example.


Any opinions on this?
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

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Re: Functional EGR Testing

none
I was told that the waekon is OK by a BAR rep even though it doesn't check the computer side. I posted a picture on here somewhere of wires you have to jump on GMs.

I have not been able to do the EGR functional test on pre-OBDII GMs with a Snap On brick. When we had to do the functional test on OBDII vehicles I sure used it a lot... and YES, Those V6 Subarus sucked.
Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement.
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

scanner
In reply to this post by Hard Nox
Hard Nox wrote
As seldom as we must perform Functional EGR Testing on a TSI Smog Check, it still must be done from time to time.

Any opinions on this?
There was a thread at the iATN Emission Forum that questioned how to test a Honda EGR.  I would say that most responses were that one should use factory testing procedures in order to perform a Functional EGR Test.  

http://autop.ro/q8s

I have to admit, many times I'll use my own procedures to test an EGR system.   I had a 1990 Ford Bronco with a 5.0L that failed elsewhere for the EGR Functional Test this week.   I looked at the underhood vacuum diagram and found the EGR solenoid.   I put a test light on the control side of the solenoid, and the engine stumbled hard.   I put a Vantage GMM on the control side and brake torqued the engine, and watched the ECM put out a control signal.   As far as I'm concerned, the EGR is fully functional.   If someone calls me on it, and says that's not the Factory procedure, I'm confident enough to say it will pass the Factory procedure.  

Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

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The first time I did a Honda electronic EGR functional test I used the "trouble shooter" on the brick for an EGR code and it walked me through the test procedure with jumper wires. (I still didn't test the computer side).

I still challenge someone to find an easy way or factory test procedure for a Dodge Ram V10. Every component is unreachable with the intake plenum on.  
Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement.
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

scanner
none wrote
The first time I did a Honda electronic EGR functional test I used the "trouble shooter" on the brick for an EGR code and it walked me through the test procedure with jumper wires. (I still didn't test the computer side).
I've never had to do a functional test on that particular system because I mostly do ASM tests.  I do remember there wasn't a bi-directional control on those early Honda electronic EGR valves.   I had a reoccurring code for the EGR position sensor.   There were no desired or actual pids available on the scanner either.   I tested it by loading the engine and viewing the signal with a GMM and couldn't find a problem.   I did a Hail Mary, replaced the EGR Valve and corrected the problem.  

I still challenge someone to find an easy way or factory test procedure for a Dodge Ram V10. Every component is unreachable with the intake plenum on.
Neverever had to do one.
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

Hard Nox
In reply to this post by Hard Nox
Thanks for the additional food for thought on this topic.

I have never been faced with that 6cyl Subaru, or even given that one a thought.
Nor have I dealt with an early Dodge V10 EGR.

Several years ago did run into a 76 or so VW with a Mechanical OEM EGR system. That was an odd one.
If I remember there is a procedure to disconnect the mechanical linkage, and then manipulate the EGR to test the system.

Don't miss these early systems a bit.

Got  me thinking of the early days of retrofitting Spark, NOX and PCV systems, but that's a topic for another day.
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Re: Functional EGR Testing

Kevin
In reply to this post by Hard Nox
There is no simple answer to this question due to the diversity of systems, make sure you can test the system properly in a test only station 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 9:32 AM Hard Nox [via Stop The Star Program] <[hidden email]> wrote:
As seldom as we must perform Functional EGR Testing on a TSI Smog Check, it still must be done from time to time.

Been doing some reading and reviewing New and Old technical info lately, this topic crossed my mind.

When testing electronic controlled EGR systems I realize the use of a Bi-Directional scanner is in most cases the Best method.

A Bi-Directional scanner may not always be available in the real world.

The use of a tester tester such as Waekon EGR tester does test the valve only.

Smog Check Training video  " Module 8"  recommends the scanner method using a GM vehicle as example.


Any opinions on this?



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none
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scanner wrote
none wrote
The first time I did a Honda electronic EGR functional test I used the "trouble shooter" on the brick for an EGR code and it walked me through the test procedure with jumper wires. (I still didn't test the computer side).
I've never had to do a functional test on that particular system because I mostly do ASM tests.  I do remember there wasn't a bi-directional control on those early Honda electronic EGR valves.   I had a reoccurring code for the EGR position sensor.   There were no desired or actual pids available on the scanner either.   I tested it by loading the engine and viewing the signal with a GMM and couldn't find a problem.   I did a Hail Mary, replaced the EGR Valve and corrected the problem.

...
I had to do them mostly on Acura MDX AWD V6 but I have basic areas close on three side of me too.
Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement.