Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

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Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

hello
2002 Corolla comes in with a Pre 2009 "OBD2 Compliant" catalytic converter with a spacer installed on the oxygen sensor.

I failed the car with a tamper cat, and tampered o2 sensor.

The same car comes in with all monitors set, minus spacer.

I told him he has to change the cat, since he has a spacer installed last week. I even took a picture of it for my own proof.

Other shops refuse to smog his car, and I told him I'd smog it for him if he installs a new  compliant cat.


What do you do?
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

BasicTech678
it possibly had a cat code thats why the post o2 spacer was installed, he removed it but due to the previous failure i would also deny it with out replacement cat. he might have got lazy after the monitors cleared for the cat and didn't expect you to see the spacer.  good catch its someone elses problem now
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

hello
If he has brought the car in the first time with no o2 spacer, I would have passed him.


I have no problem passing cars with the older cats that say "OBD2 Compliant" but the fact he had the spacer, he's tricking the computer to thinking the cat is doing its job.

He said other shops refused to touch the car with out him replacing the cat. He's pretty upset at me, but I told him we can call the BAR and see what he says. But he didn't say anything to that.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Lose weight
In reply to this post by hello
I normally test as is when I tell them to take off the spacer and come back to pass it. My fpr score is still good so no worries here..yet anyway.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

BasicTech678
might as well charge them the crooked smog price what your basically doing
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Lose weight
Not really. What would BAR think of a TO shop telling a consumer to change a part in order for it to pass hmm? We all know the spacer was there for a p0420 but ehh.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Best Answer I Can Give
In reply to this post by BasicTech678
 So under most of you guys thinking, a vehicle comes in with a bad (You Name It). PVC, hose off, gas cap.
Now you will not test it?
The person fixed the vehicle back to stock.
Do you have proof that he pulled it?
Under you guys thinking, Once bad always bad.

 You cannot prove that he did what we all know he did. So who is wrong? My thinking is you guys. Test as presented. BAR guy would tell you, you are wrong. The vehicle is now legal.
Now why that thinking? Fucking STAR.

 You tell a person, "It is not Legal" They make it legal and you will not test it? It was legal when you saw it. TEST IT. PASS IT.

 WRITE IT ON YOUR FUCKING INVOICE. PUT THE PICTURES THERE ALSO. When BAR give you shit about your score, give them shit back. Until BAR does something about this, either test it or blow it out.

 The Vehicle was fixed and LEGAL at the time you were testing it.
If you don't want someone to "Get your Goat". Don't tell them where it is tied.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Johnnybeme
In reply to this post by Lose weight
Also not in the discussion is whether the customer has a receipt for the converter previous to the 2009 law?

JM
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by Lose weight
test as is meaning with the spacer, fail. not advise them to properly cheat the system which you just said you tell them to remove it then comeback.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by Lose weight
Lose weight wrote
Not really. What would BAR think of a TO shop telling a consumer to change a part in order for it to pass hmm? We all know the spacer was there for a p0420 but ehh.
so as a test only if it fails for the wrong cat/tampered your not allowed to tell them its the wrong cat? i thought it was part of the smog inspection to explain the reasons why it failed and how to correct them, yes you cant replace the converter yourself but you can advise them of the approved arb converters from the website its public record. telling them what converters are approved and parts throwing like replace your plugs cap ect to clear an hc fail are two different things
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Lose weight
In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
This is a little similar to the AIR rummer grommet debate where some techs fail the AIR pump if it's zip tied because they "think" a MIL light will be on for the AIR in the future.So i'm not sure if we're allowed to ask a customer to replace a cat for an o2 spacer present. I do tell em if the MIL comes on after you remove the spacer then repair that problem first then return. Most do end up replacing the converter btw,I just don't ask them directly to replace x this or x that in case they file a complaint with BAR.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Lose weight
In reply to this post by BasicTech678
BasicTech678 wrote
test as is meaning with the spacer, fail. not advise them to properly cheat the system which you just said you tell them to remove it then comeback.
No I do tamper them then ask them to remove it.I don't pre check for parts first.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Lose weight
In reply to this post by BasicTech678
BasicTech678 wrote
Lose weight wrote
Not really. What would BAR think of a TO shop telling a consumer to change a part in order for it to pass hmm? We all know the spacer was there for a p0420 but ehh.
so as a test only if it fails for the wrong cat/tampered your not allowed to tell them its the wrong cat?
That's a different scenario than an o2 spacer.  Besta gets it, but due to star the majority of techs foreshadow fails and refuse to test some vehicles. Can't blame them I guess.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by Lose weight
Lose weight wrote
BasicTech678 wrote
test as is meaning with the spacer, fail. not advise them to properly cheat the system which you just said you tell them to remove it then comeback.
No I do tamper them then ask them to remove it.I don't pre check for parts first.
so when you tamper  its for converter, 02 and other right? you dont write any comments?. then it magically passes visual with NO REPAIRS to show if they do come asking questions. what repairs where done ugh i advised them to remove the spacer being used to cheat the system? thats awesome

i personally dislike customers who bring cars in like that, i show some sympathy if they just bought the car but if its a biannual smog i fail it charge them tamper every thing that needs to be tampered then advise them they should have went to the usual guy that smogged it prior to me if he was letting that bs slide. you do realize the BAR uses spacers right????  i posted the undercover car i caught here with a spacer and testpipe.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Best Answer I Can Give
In reply to this post by Lose weight
 Test as Presented.
Comes in with a spacer, FAIL
Comes back with the spacer removed, PASS.


 TEST ONLY? KEEP YOU MOUTH SHUT. It failed you need to take it to a licensed shop to get fixed. You did your job.

 When it comes back it was legal. Pass it
If you don't want someone to "Get your Goat". Don't tell them where it is tied.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Centralized Smog
In reply to this post by hello
hello wrote
What do you do?
I do the same as Lose Weight. There was nothing visually wrong with the cat. On the first test I would have only failed the o2 as tampered. After it is removed, I would pass it. My job is to visually see if there is anything wrong with the emissions component. It is not to try to determine if the component is working.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Centralized Smog
In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
When BAR give you shit about your score, give them shit back.
Haha. When BAR takes away your STAR certification because of your low score, what do you do? Peel off the star sticker on their shirt?
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

scanner
In reply to this post by hello
hello wrote
2002 Corolla comes in with a Pre 2009 "OBD2 Compliant" catalytic converter with a spacer installed on the oxygen sensor.

I failed the car with a tamper cat, and tampered o2 sensor.
I would have just tampered the O2 sensor.  You said that the cat was the correct one.  


The same car comes in with all monitors set, minus spacer.
I told him he has to change the cat, since he has a spacer installed last week. I even took a picture of it for my own proof.

He's playing you.  It's not going to set a cat code in the time he took the spacer off, and brought it to your shop.


What do you do?

If I were you, I'd refuse to test it.  Let someone else pass it.  



Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

Best Answer I Can Give
 OK this is what I love about this system.
We all know what happened. The vehicle was legal the second time it came in. BAR would give you nothing but shit because you didn't TEST as PRESENTED, and PASS a legal car.
Now why shouldn't you get shit from the BAR? Because you KNEW what had happened. What could happen.
AND NONE OF IT YOU HAVE ANY CONTROL OF! Fucking STAR!
If you don't want someone to "Get your Goat". Don't tell them where it is tied.
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Re: Post O2 sensor w/ spacer

hello
I appreciate all you guys' input.

I feel that I was wrong to deny the car without replacing the cat. The owner of the car gave me a big fuss. But I showed him the picture I took for the spacer, and he couldn't deny that.

Unfortunately it's not always about what we know. We're testing the car the second time as if it were the first time. Right? Cause if that were the situation, it would have passed. But I imagine in the comments we can also note:

 "oxygen sensor spacer has been removed for retest"

I wonder what the STAR program would think of that.
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