Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

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Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

No One
Been getting a lot of customers coming in from other shops refusing to smog their cars because the under the hood label is missing. What are you guys doing when they are missing? I'm still testing them and recommending to customers to get them because its only a matter of time before BAR gods decide to make a fail mandatory or they start fucking with our star scores for missing labels.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

SeanLoch
Im just noting on the OIS at end of inspection that its missing, ET help desk agreed on that entry. And YES i agree its only a matter of time before BAR enforces failing the vehicles because the label is missing, and its more money in your pocket having stations not performing inspections on those vehicles. I would be on the look out also for front end damage indicating the hood has been changed and the label therefore will be more than likely incorrect for the vehicle being tested. I would hope that after a few years the prompt wont come up for a vehicle thats already in the database that has the EFN matched to the VIN, but that will probably never happen.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

none
In reply to this post by No One
I've never worried about a missing label. I guess more money for you.
Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

No One
In reply to this post by SeanLoch
SeanLoch wrote
I would hope that after a few years the prompt wont come up for a vehicle thats already in the database that has the EFN matched to the VIN, but that will probably never happen.
What im hoping to get from this is that they from now on it will show us ef# so that we can determine whether CATS that have been changed are the proper ones for cars that come in with labels that went missing over time for what ever reason.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

BayAreaSmogTech
In reply to this post by No One
No One wrote
Been getting a lot of customers coming in from other shops refusing to smog their cars because the under the hood label is missing. What are you guys doing when they are missing? I'm still testing them and recommending to customers to get them because its only a matter of time before BAR gods decide to make a fail mandatory or they start fucking with our star scores for missing labels.

I smog the vehicle and let them know that in two years when I see that vehicle again, it better have a underhood label. They cost $5-10 from the dealer.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

kfworry
Visual Inspection
1.3.2 Emission Control System Labels
Underhood Emission Control Label: Each vehicle’s underhood emission control label serves
as the primary source for emissions control requirements and to indicate the vehicle’s
certification type (California and Federal). It is important to review emission control
components on this label, since emission control system technology changes and varies between
vehicle manufacturers. A missing or illegible emission control label does not constitute an
inspection failure. In cases where the emission control label is missing or illegible, the inspector
may proceed with the inspection provided that the required emission controls can be determined
using other sources as described in section 1.3.1. Note: Some diesel-powered vehicles are
equipped with a second or additional emission control label affixed to the engine.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

kfworry
Aftermarket Parts Label: CARB approved or exempted parts are subject to CARB aftermarket
parts labeling requirements. These requirements specify that Aftermarket Parts Labels (APL)
must be affixed or stamped on approved/exempted parts or, if not practical, installed near the
approved/exempted parts. The labels are required to contain an EO number that can be used to
verify CARB approval or exemption, as outlined in section 1.3.1. Note: A missing or illegible
APL does not constitute an inspection failure. In cases where the label is missing or illegible, the
inspector may proceed with the inspection, provided the parts can be confirmed as CARB
approved or exempted by comparing the part number marked on the part with the CARB EO
parts listings or the parts manufacturer catalog.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

FiendFX
So what do you do if a vehicle comes in with an aftermarket CAT, and has no EFN on the hood label?

Would you fail it or reject?
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

Hard Nox
To determine the correct catalyst on a vehicle on a vehicle that is missing the underhood emissions label use the
Make
Model
Engine
Use all available normal reference sources that are available to verify the fitment.

There is a document to that effect not at my hands right now.
I believe it is titled, "FAQ"

Don't remember if it on the BAR or ARB website.  Have it posted in the shop to reread in those times when I have brain fade.

When you know that you are working on  a vehicle that you think is a ULEV this can be a problem. Or also a problem when you pass it and the next person fails it without knowing the rules.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

dcf1ver
In reply to this post by FiendFX
FiendFX wrote
So what do you do if a vehicle comes in with an aftermarket CAT, and has no EFN on the hood label?

Would you fail it or reject?
Good question. Id reject it, if I cant verify the EFN.

Are there resources for finding out a vehicles EFN?
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

dcf1ver
In reply to this post by Hard Nox
Hard Nox wrote
To determine the correct catalyst on a vehicle on a vehicle that is missing the underhood emissions label use the
Make
Model
Engine
Use all available normal reference sources that are available to verify the fitment.
A vehicle can be the same make,model and engine size and still have 2 different EFNs.

 What then?
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

laziiee
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/installcatq&a.pdf

Q. What if the engine family number is no longer available under the hood?
A. Use the make, model, and model year information to locate similar vehicles in ARB’s
summary list and determine the appropriate catalytic converter.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

Best Answer I Can Give
 Sounds to me that, if you want it to pass, just scratch off part of the label. "Don't know couldn't read it."
Interesting that when you TELL the TRUTH, people get upset. Plus some people can NEVER admit when they are WRONG.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

FiendFX
In reply to this post by dcf1ver
dcf1ver wrote
FiendFX wrote
So what do you do if a vehicle comes in with an aftermarket CAT, and has no EFN on the hood label?

Would you fail it or reject?
Good question. Id reject it, if I cant verify the EFN.

Are there resources for finding out a vehicles EFN?
BAR Help Desk. But that does not help your FPR. This is my point.

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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Hard Nox
Hard Nox wrote
To determine the correct catalyst on a vehicle on a vehicle that is missing the underhood emissions label use the
Make
Model
Engine
Use all available normal reference sources that are available to verify the fitment.

There is a document to that effect not at my hands right now.
I believe it is titled, "FAQ"

Don't remember if it on the BAR or ARB website.  Have it posted in the shop to reread in those times when I have brain fade.

When you know that you are working on  a vehicle that you think is a ULEV this can be a problem. Or also a problem when you pass it and the next person fails it without knowing the rules.
This is a good example on the 98-02 Honda Accord 4 cylinders. No EFN number, or what if they have a different valve cover. Tricky...
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

FiendFX
In reply to this post by laziiee
laziiee wrote
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/installcatq&a.pdf

Q. What if the engine family number is no longer available under the hood?
A. Use the make, model, and model year information to locate similar vehicles in ARB’s
summary list and determine the appropriate catalytic converter.
Thank you for posting the link. However, this is where it gets tricky. Not sure how up to date is that information is but we are required to write down the EFN on vehicles with aftermarket vehicle.

If you had smog a vehicle with no EFN and you passed it, but 2 years later the next tech fails it you take a hit.

Like on a 98-02 Accord 4 cyl, on the SULEV, it must use OEM CAT as their is no aftermarket for it. As for looking at the valve cover, what if they change the valve cover?

I am not trying to start a fight, but this is what I am getting at.

As Justa would say, what would the next technician do the next 2 years? So basically the BAR is watching us screwing up each other. Which is not fair for us technicians.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

dcf1ver
FiendFX wrote
laziiee wrote
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/installcatq&a.pdf

Q. What if the engine family number is no longer available under the hood?
A. Use the make, model, and model year information to locate similar vehicles in ARB’s
summary list and determine the appropriate catalytic converter.
Thank you for posting the link. However, this is where it gets tricky. Not sure how up to date is that information is but we are required to write down the EFN on vehicles with aftermarket vehicle.

If you had smog a vehicle with no EFN and you passed it, but 2 years later the next tech fails it you take a hit.

Like on a 98-02 Accord 4 cyl, on the SULEV, it must use OEM CAT as their is no aftermarket for it. As for looking at the valve cover, what if they change the valve cover?

I am not trying to start a fight, but this is what I am getting at.

As Justa would say, what would the next technician do the next 2 years? So basically the BAR is watching us screwing up each other. Which is not fair for us technicians.
FYI 98-99 Accord 4cyl SULEV cat is discontinued/NLA(just went through this search a few weeks ago)

The Ref will issue a substitute cat number to use.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

laziiee
In reply to this post by FiendFX
Yup you're exactly right, if every smog tech follow the guidelines on these then we won't have to worry about out score getting hit by the next tech  for not knowing the guidelines and make up his own. A lot of tech don't read over these guidelines and a lot of them is not on this forum, so there isn't really nothing you can do about it so I'm not gonna stress over something beyond my control and worry about what shit head tech gonna do 2 year after my test. My score been perfectly fine so far  I don't have to care too much about what other shit tech do. Hopefully it stayed that way lol.
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Re: Refusing to smog cause EFN#/label is missing

Newbiesmogtech
EPA has a test group database that is organized by year/make/model except for theres no way to look up the specific car your testing so its pretty useless... but its there!

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/01certified-models.csv
can change years to look it up. Been using this to verify when i get a test group that Bar doesn't have listed on their list.