TSI or ASM?

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TSI or ASM?

timsmog
1997 ford e350 5.4L. I'm trying to do asm but the dyno loading will not let me get over 15mph. I have aborted 2 times already. Can i do TSI on the one ? It's gvwr is 8700 lbs? Thanks for all the help?

The Smog check mannual:

The following are examples of vehicle designs that are not compatible with the ASM test and
therefore must receive the two-speed-idle test:
• Full-time all wheel or four wheel drive;
• Traction control that cannot be disabled;
• Body or chassis modifications made for business purposes that make the vehicle
incompatible with loaded mode testing;
• Unable to safely fit on the dynamometer;
• Motorhomes as classified by the Department of Motor Vehicles over 8,500 GVWR;
• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR between 8,501 and 9,999 and with an unloaded drive
axle weight over 5,000 pounds.
• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR over 9,999.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

Best Answer I Can Give
 The BAR would tell as would I, "That's what the Ref is for"
 Life will give you rope. It will give you enough to make a ladder to pull yourself up, or an noose to hang yourself with.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by timsmog
Weigh the drive axle unloaded, if it is over 5000 then you may TSI.

• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR between 8,501 and 9,999 and with an unloaded drive
axle weight over 5,000 pounds.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timsmog
In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
Yeah.
Just feel bad about losing $80 after spending an hour of work and two stupid aborted test that will affect my FPR score. Thanks anyway.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

D Rochells 150861
When we were still using dynos on everything, 2003ish Camrys and ES300's would not maintain speed with a steady throttle. I used to get annoyed and TSI them under non dis trac ctrl, no one from BAR complained. They even Blasted us saying they knew of the problem and supposedly adjusted the loading to fix the problem, it did not and I continued to TSI as needed.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timsmog
We only do 3-5 vehicle a week on BAR 97. I think if i doing the same i could get a red flag from them.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

scanner
In reply to this post by D Rochells 150861
D Rochells 150861 wrote
When we were still using dynos on everything, 2003ish Camrys and ES300's would not maintain speed with a steady throttle. I used to get annoyed and TSI them under non dis trac ctrl, no one from BAR complained. They even Blasted us saying they knew of the problem and supposedly adjusted the loading to fix the problem, it did not and I continued to TSI as needed.
Here's a graphic I made to describe the issue.    There's some talk about bringing back up to 2003 MY vehicles to ASM, I hope they leave these out.  

Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

Kevin
In reply to this post by timsmog
You have less than a dozen posts on this forum so I'm assuming you're fairly new to the industry which means the bureau of automotive repair is gonna be a little generous knowing that you're going to make mistakes but honestly if the axle weights over 5000 pounds you can do a 2 speed idle test on it

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 3:28 PM timsmog [via Stop The Star Program] <[hidden email] wrote:
1997 ford e350 5.4L. I'm trying to do asm but the dyno loading will not let me get over 15mph. I have aborted 2 times already. Can i do TSI on the one ? It's gvwr is 8700 lbs? Thanks for all the help?

The Smog check mannual:

The following are examples of vehicle designs that are not compatible with the ASM test and
therefore must receive the two-speed-idle test:
• Full-time all wheel or four wheel drive;
• Traction control that cannot be disabled;
• Body or chassis modifications made for business purposes that make the vehicle
incompatible with loaded mode testing;
• Unable to safely fit on the dynamometer;
• Motorhomes as classified by the Department of Motor Vehicles over 8,500 GVWR;
• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR between 8,501 and 9,999 and with an unloaded drive
axle weight over 5,000 pounds.
• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR over 9,999.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: TSI or ASM?

none
In reply to this post by timsmog
timsmog wrote
... the dyno loading will not let me get over 15mph...
I would do a dyno calibration including "parasitics". If you have a Mustang dyno, the voltage on the "KV board" may be off and you can have a tech adjust it. It is more noticeable on heavy vehicles.

If you shut down your machine and shut off the 220V to the dyno and the turn on the 220V first it will reboot and often work better.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: TSI or ASM?

Hard Nox
In reply to this post by timsmog
At 8700 gvw that is a TSI under current regs.

8501 gvw and over is a clean cut TSI.

Just make sure that E350 is OBD2 compliant, if Fed it could be OBD1.
Scan it and print it with the OBD type that vehicle has if it goes OBD1.
Attach that sheet to the VIR to C.Y.A.

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Re: TSI or ASM?

BlueSky
Hard Nox wrote
At 8700 gvw that is a TSI under current regs.
No It's Not TSI Under Current Regs unless it is a Heavy Duty Vehicle With a GVWR Between 8,501 and 9,999 and With An UNLOADED Drive Axle Weight Over 5,000 lbs., Then It Can Be Run TSI.

8501 gvw and over is a clean cut TSI.
Again Not True.
From the 2017 Smog Check Manual, Page 10 it reads....
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timmy
In reply to this post by timsmog
My opinion, it requires ASM because it doen't meet any of the TSI requirements. I've never seen a vehicle with an axle weight of 5000lbs. Highest I've seen are 2600-2700lbs on some full size vans.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timsmog
In reply to this post by none
Thank you for your reply. The van doesn't have door label ?? I only can get the old gvwr through the history of Bar97.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timsmog
In reply to this post by timmy
 just found this online. should have done TSI.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

Best Answer I Can Give
In reply to this post by BlueSky
 The problem being is, BAR comes out and ask why you did it one way and the last time it was done ASM. Are you trying to cheat?
 Life will give you rope. It will give you enough to make a ladder to pull yourself up, or an noose to hang yourself with.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

none
In reply to this post by timsmog
timsmog wrote
... just found this online. should have done TSI.
NO! unloaded weight is NOT the same as GVWR (GROSS vehicle weight rating)
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: TSI or ASM?

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by scanner
That is the best way of describing the problem yet. I pray we don't have to start TSIing Escapes and Tributes again.
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Re: TSI or ASM?

Lose weight
In reply to this post by timsmog
You might want to place a service call for future instances like this. I also had dyno loading errors with bigger vehicles and the repair tech adjusted some settings on the bar 97 machine.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: TSI or ASM?

timsmog
In reply to this post by none
• Heavy duty vehicles with GVWR between 8,501 and 9,999 and with an unloaded drive
axle weight over 5,000 pounds.
So my understanding The Ford E350 has total Gvwr of 8700lbs with an unloaded drive axle weight is 5360 Lbs(which is rear wheel drive). Is it support to be TSI test?
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Re: TSI or ASM?

D Rochells 150861
You are reading that wrong, 5360 is the Gross Axle Wheel Rating. Which means how much weight can be supported by that axle. To determine TSI or not you need to put the drive wheels on the scale to see if it is over 5000.
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