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barrym95838 wrote
That tiny amount of extra-curricular activity on #6 isn't enough for concern, I expect ...

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
No, and if I didn't have "Peak Detect" turned on, you'd never would have seen it.   You had to be there.
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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none
In reply to this post by scanner
I can see where the other guy is coming from too and was discussing this situation with coils with another shop owner at my update class over the weekend. If one has gone bad and the rest are just as old he may be doing it to cover his butt so the customer who doesn't understand and has "The same problem" six months later doesn't think he did a bad job.

I am amazed when someone has a early Duramax diesel and tears into it and then just replaces the one or two bad injectors. With all the labor involved in that job I would replace them all

I had an unpleasant experience with a 1994 Audi S4 dropping a coil after I replaced one.
People are usually shocked when they find out I'm not a very good electrician.
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In reply to this post by Best Answer I Can Give
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
Scanner I try to stay away from these. It has gone past me so far and fast. But I am going to side with the customer.
If you look at the IGF green trace, there should be 6 signals equidistant apart from each other.  It's the response from the coils signifying a successful coil firing.   The firing order is 1 2 3 4 5 6    I triggered off #2 IGT, the yellow trace.  It's the signal from the ECM to trigger the #2 coil.  It happened to be the easiest coil to access.    The #3 IGF not going down to ground reference.  

I KNOW what I am looking at. And I know that it's not right. But how much not right I can't say.
The problem is, What is a good pattern and what is a bad pattern? Any Idiot can pick up and hook up a Lab Scope. Just what is the picture suppose to look like.
Here's the fixed waveform.    





Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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In reply to this post by none
none wrote
I can see where the other guy is coming from too and was discussing this situation with coils with another shop owner at my update class over the weekend. If one has gone bad and the rest are just as old he may be doing it to cover his butt so the customer who doesn't understand and has "The same problem" six months later doesn't think he did a bad job.
I let my customer know that I will only be covering what I fixed, not a whole "system".   I have scandata and waveforms of the problem, and if the same problem comes up, I'll take responsibility.    If a different coil goes out, the customer had been informed that he could have changed the part during my repair as preventative maintenance.  As long as the customer is informed of what my repair is warrantied for, he should be good with that.    I won't hear, my car is doing the same thing.  

I am amazed when someone has a early Duramax diesel and tears into it and then just replaces the one or two bad injectors. With all the labor involved in that job I would replace them all
Right, but that should be discussed with the consumer before any repairs are attempted.  

I had an unpleasant experience with a 1994 Audi S4 dropping a coil after I replaced one.
What happened?
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Best Answer I Can Give
In reply to this post by scanner
 Thanks, I kind of knew that. The one thing I did know was one is different from the others.

 The Point I was trying to make is, When it comes to looking at any sort of Pattern\ Diagnostic display is, if you have NO idea of what you are looking at, you are lost.

 Hey you did your best. You tried. But, trying to tell a Heart Doc about a vehicles pattern and he will give you a blank stare.
The FUNNY thing about that is he will look at a EKG, KNOW what it is to be right and still be lost on a vehicle. BUT THEY BOTH READ A ELECTRICAL PATTERN.

 I guess my real point is, If you don't know what you are looking at, WHY ARE YOU DOING IT?
tired, and just not the tired that sleep can fix.
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barrym95838
Administrator
In reply to this post by none
none wrote
... I had an unpleasant experience with a 1994 Audi S4 dropping a coil after I replaced one.
The boss' son loves those damned things, but he always seems to buy them after they're already starting to fall apart, usually at about six years.  I can appreciate the way EuroTrash rides and drives, but I would never own one of those Nazi bastard-mobiles ... they're just too annoying and costly to maintain and repair.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by scanner
I find it odd that in this day and age there isn't a waveform analysis program that can figure that out on its own. Facial recognition software surely must be more complicated.
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D wrote
I find it odd that in this day and age there isn't a waveform analysis program that can figure that out on its own. Facial recognition software surely must be more complicated.
How much do you want to pay?  

http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tekscope-anywhere-waveform-analysis-software

There's software like Metratek's Waveform Manager Pro that will convert waveform files to the Tekscope format.   I would think you'd be able to take Pico or SnapOn files and convert them for use with the software.    

I don't think there would be enough interest for someone to develop an automotive specific product.  
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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D Rochells 150861
Well, based on my experience with most techs and customers, such a program is what is needed to fix vehicles correctly and in a timely cost effective manner.
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D wrote
Well, based on my experience with most techs and customers, such a program is what is needed to fix vehicles correctly and in a timely cost effective manner.
Maybe.  I went to a class last night, and the instructor asked how many techs use a labscope.   It wasn't the majority.   I'm sure most of the labscopes in T&R shops are still in shrink wrap.  

If no one knows how to capture a waveform, I think manipulating analysis software will also be beyond that person too.  

How many enhanced scanners are used solely as a code reader?   A whole bunch.  Lots of techs not even motivated to read how systems work, and correlate the data to the information.   There are some scan tools with test plans but unless you specialize, it wouldn't be cost effective for many shops.
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Best Answer I Can Give
 Sounds like you went to the same class I did. Most of them, Not a Clue. And this was a 12 hour renew your Test and Repair license.
tired, and just not the tired that sleep can fix.
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D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by scanner
We need an AB that STAR TO's must use their scopes once a month to maintain STAR.
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In reply to this post by smgmn
2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4.8L V8 Secondary Air Injection wouldn't complete.   Bi-directional controls showed me this.  



Bank 2 Check Valve is NFG, but I changed both check valves, and once the coolant temp went below 176°F, I ran the monitor in less than 5 minutes.  Took longer to set the scanner up to watch the pids.  
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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D Rochells 150861
I had an S10 last week, someone had installed a new pump but missed the really fragile vacuum lines to the solenoid. One was pinched on a hose clamp. The 02 dropped to within spec the first time, but when I double checked it did not move. So while I was taking stuff apart to fix the vacuum lines I broke the nipple on the air control valve. Had to order the valve and the customer has not brought it back it yet.

And now I have 2 LT1's with high NOX to fix, a 95 Impala SS and a 95 Camaro. Fun times.
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D wrote
I had an S10 last week, someone had installed a new pump but missed the really fragile vacuum lines to the solenoid. One was pinched on a hose clamp. The 02 dropped to within spec the first time, but when I double checked it did not move. So while I was taking stuff apart to fix the vacuum lines I broke the nipple on the air control valve. Had to order the valve and the customer has not brought it back it yet.
When they do bring it back, here's what I did to run the SAI monitor,



It's the code set criteria for a P0410, and I just waited for the temp to go below 176ºF, and then ran it at 30 mph unloaded on the dyno.   A few minutes later, I didn't see the O2 go low, so I checked the monitor, and it had completed. The monitor had run before I was able to read the scandata.    

And now I have 2 LT1's with high NOX to fix, a 95 Impala SS and a 95 Camaro. Fun times.
Ugh, EGR under the plenum.  Hopefully it's a O2 sensor, or a bad solenoid.  
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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D Rochells 150861
Well the Impala passed, EGR was working, we decarbonized the crap out of it. It had so many little problems, CARB approved headers leaking at the head, hacked up wiring harness. Just glad it's is out of my life, and he's moving to Pennsylvania so in theory my FPR is ok.

The Camaro, well for starters the AIR solenoid isn't hooked up to anything. And funnily enough the air control valve nipple is broken, luckily the S10 hasn't come back yet. Sucky thing is the intake manifold does not have the same amount of vacuum nipples that the vac diagram shows.
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barrym95838
Administrator
That's the engine with the PDV (positive distributor vent), huh?

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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D Rochells 150861
I'm not sure, haven't seen a distributor yet. While I was revacuuming the EGR I found that the nylon fuel lines had all been broken and reconnected in the most dangerous manner possible. Maybe someone was trying to kill the owner, or me.
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In reply to this post by smgmn
A 1997 Honda CRV was towed in the other day.   It cranks, but won't start.   I decided to grab a quick waveform, and I know exactly what I have to do.   What is bad, what do you think I replaced?  D, None, and Michael don't say nothing right away.

 

Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Best Answer I Can Give
You lost me. Where is the leads hooked up to?
tired, and just not the tired that sleep can fix.
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