This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

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This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

His_Stigness
It's all in the details. The best way to prevent a yoyo score, or even a super low score is by paying attention to the details!

I smogged a Tacoma earlier today. It had the TRD supercharger kit, and the EO label was right under the emission control label. It only had the supercharger EO label, and it also had the TRD intake too. I of course checked the EO to make sure it applied to the truck (D-425-20).

But then I READ THE PDF, and that's where we run into issues:

The stock airflow sensor, air cleaner housing and thermostat are retained.

Jesus effing christ, WHY HAS THIS TRUCK BEEN PASSING?!?!? If only one EO label is under the hood, and the EO that is present specifically states the aftermarket air intake installed needs its own EO, then why am I the first one who is failing it.

It's because I'm paying attention to the details. And that's a big reason why my FPR has remained above .95 for years. Yes, the FPR metric is screwy as shit. My first score was crap, barely above .50, then it went up a little, and now it hasn't gone below .95 *knock on wood*. But the above example is how I test EVERY. SINGLE. CAR! If it has aftermarket parts, VERIFY IT. If it has an aftermarket catalytic converter, VERIFY IT! And if you find things wrong with it, FAIL IT! I know it's a pain in the ass to fail cars for tiny ass things, and the customer IS going to get pissed, BUT IT'S YOUR JOB.

Stop bitching at other techs about your score being in the trash because you're too lazy to check EOs or fail cars just because you know it's not an undercover.

Again, I know the FPR metrics are shrouded in mystery, and the BAR is probably fucking with it, but I've failed a lot of cars over the years. I am always at least a few percentage points above the state average and similar vehicle failure rate. And I am WAY higher when it comes to BAR97 cars.

It is NOT hard. Start failing cars. INSIST they are fixed right. If the RPM is 150 RPM outside of the spec, make sure it's fixed. Just because it's 150 RPM or only 4 degrees off from spec doesn't mean it's going to stay that way for two years. I've been doing this for years and it's clearly served me well. Customers are either grateful I've alerted them to an issue and their car doesn't have a problem in two years, or they get pissed off and go somewhere else. Either way, I benefit. And you can too.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

Lose weight
His_Stigness wrote

Stop bitching at other techs about your score being in the trash because you're too lazy to check EOs or fail cars just because you know it's not an undercover.


I got a .001 but I swear I check every Eo, timing and verify all the aftermarket catalytic converters!  
Exercise and dividends,dividends, DIVIDENDS.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

Kevin
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
fail more and stop worrying about your score

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 2:37 PM His_Stigness [via Stop The Star Program] <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's all in the details. The best way to prevent a yoyo score, or even a super low score is by paying attention to the details!

I smogged a Tacoma earlier today. It had the TRD supercharger kit, and the EO label was right under the emission control label. It only had the supercharger EO label, and it also had the TRD intake too. I of course checked the EO to make sure it applied to the truck (D-425-20).

But then I READ THE PDF, and that's where we run into issues:

The stock airflow sensor, air cleaner housing and thermostat are retained.

Jesus effing christ, WHY HAS THIS TRUCK BEEN PASSING?!?!? If only one EO label is under the hood, and the EO that is present specifically states the aftermarket air intake installed needs its own EO, then why am I the first one who is failing it.

It's because I'm paying attention to the details. And that's a big reason why my FPR has remained above .95 for years. Yes, the FPR metric is screwy as shit. My first score was crap, barely above .50, then it went up a little, and now it hasn't gone below .95 *knock on wood*. But the above example is how I test EVERY. SINGLE. CAR! If it has aftermarket parts, VERIFY IT. If it has an aftermarket catalytic converter, VERIFY IT! And if you find things wrong with it, FAIL IT! I know it's a pain in the ass to fail cars for tiny ass things, and the customer IS going to get pissed, BUT IT'S YOUR JOB.

Stop bitching at other techs about your score being in the trash because you're too lazy to check EOs or fail cars just because you know it's not an undercover.

Again, I know the FPR metrics are shrouded in mystery, and the BAR is probably fucking with it, but I've failed a lot of cars over the years. I am always at least a few percentage points above the state average and similar vehicle failure rate. And I am WAY higher when it comes to BAR97 cars.

It is NOT hard. Start failing cars. INSIST they are fixed right. If the RPM is 150 RPM outside of the spec, make sure it's fixed. Just because it's 150 RPM or only 4 degrees off from spec doesn't mean it's going to stay that way for two years. I've been doing this for years and it's clearly served me well. Customers are either grateful I've alerted them to an issue and their car doesn't have a problem in two years, or they get pissed off and go somewhere else. Either way, I benefit. And you can too.


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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

laziiee
In reply to this post by Lose weight
Did you check the part number on the TRD intake? It's most likely legal, you can look up the EO # from the part number to see if it's legal or not.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

user7112
To add to this rant

Always make sure aftermarket parts have a CARB EO label ON THE VEHICLE.
none of this customer bs of

" oh that part is approved, i have the number pulled up on my phone"


I need to see the label on the vehicle
 
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

laziiee
Why? You know there's no law that require the EO number sticker to be on the car right? All it said in the smog check manual is for the technician to verify it, so as long as you can verify the aftermarket part have a valid EO # it should pass. I pass shit like this here all day long cause the tech from other shop don't want to spend 3 min looking up the part # and just blind fail it if it doesn't have the eo sticker.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

user7112
laziiee wrote
Why? You know there's no law that require the EO number sticker to be on the car right? All it said in the smog check manual is for the technician to verify it, so as long as you can verify the aftermarket part have a valid EO # it should pass. I pass shit like this here all day long cause the tech from other shop don't want to spend 3 min looking up the part # and just blind fail it if it doesn't have the eo sticker.

Is that true?
Can we get someone to verify it?
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

user7112
user7112 wrote
laziiee wrote
Why? You know there's no law that require the EO number sticker to be on the car right? All it said in the smog check manual is for the technician to verify it, so as long as you can verify the aftermarket part have a valid EO # it should pass. I pass shit like this here all day long cause the tech from other shop don't want to spend 3 min looking up the part # and just blind fail it if it doesn't have the eo sticker.

Is that true?
Can we get someone to verify it?

This is very intresting
need to get to the bottom of this
I have potentially been doing the job wrong
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

His_Stigness
In reply to this post by laziiee
Here's the paragraph from the smog check manual that talks about aftermarket part verification:

Aftermarket Parts Label: CARB approved or exempted parts are subject to CARB aftermarket
parts labeling requirements. These requirements specify that Aftermarket Parts Labels (APL)
must be affixed or stamped on approved/exempted parts or, if not practical, installed near the
approved/exempted parts. The labels are required to contain an EO number that can be used to
verify CARB approval or exemption, as outlined in section 1.3.1. Note: A missing or illegible
APL does not constitute an inspection failure. In cases where the label is missing or illegible, the
inspector may proceed with the inspection, provided the parts can be confirmed as CARB
approved or exempted by comparing the part number marked on the part with the CARB EO
parts listings or the parts manufacturer catalog.


That last bit is the most important:

In cases where the label is missing or illegible, the
inspector may proceed with the inspection, provided the parts can be confirmed as CARB
approved or exempted by comparing the part number marked on the part with the CARB EO
parts listings or the parts manufacturer catalog.


You have to understand the legality of the language used. They stated that an inspector MAY proceed with the inspection and use other sources to verify the legality. It does not say an inspector SHALL proceed. The difference is very important. If a vehicle is missing the label technicians are either allowed to fail it, or refuse inspection.

Also, one more thing to note about what it says:

by comparing the part number marked on the part with the CARB EO
parts listings or the parts manufacturer catalog


If a part has no part number, technically, you can't pass it. But this is a gray area, and it's where the BAR loves to operate in. If it were black and white there wouldn't be an issue and the BAR couldn't cite technicians as often as they do.

Personally, I take these types of things on a case by case basis. And it all depends on the customer and their attitude. I've verified plenty of modifications online without a label, but again, it depends on the situation. With the Tacoma yesterday, there was no reason for the air intake label to be missing since whoever installed the supercharger almost assuredly put the intake on at the same time. So they can fix their fuck up. I'm not going to waste my time searching through Toyota's shit website to verify an intake, the dealer who installed it can.

But for a long time customer who has a 2000 diesel he bought used with Banks stuff? I'm going to take a minute to verify it THEN I'm going to have the customer call Banks and get the labels.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

His_Stigness
In reply to this post by user7112
See my last reply about verifying parts. It's a gray area, but the smog check manual does not REQUIRE us to verify a part when the label is missing. It just states we MAY do it and by using the part numbers on the part. But as almost none of these aftermarket parts have part numbers, that allows us to fail the vehicle and put the onus on the customer to contact the manufacturer.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

smog frogposter
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
It's not just in the details, remember your FPR score is affected when the next inspection cycle for a vehicle that passed its last inspection fails regardless of the cause whether it be normal wear and tear or the Customer modifying devices - circumstances that are beyond your control.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

laziiee
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
Yes if it have no part number then it mean you can't verify it then of course it's a fail.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

BayAreaSmogTech
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
His_Stigness wrote
See my last reply about verifying parts. It's a gray area, but the smog check manual does not REQUIRE us to verify a part when the label is missing. It just states we MAY do it and by using the part numbers on the part. But as almost none of these aftermarket parts have part numbers, that allows us to fail the vehicle and put the onus on the customer to contact the manufacturer.
So really, the reason your numbers are high is because you may be failing cars that have legal parts on them dinging the last tech that smogged that vehicle. The last tech may have spent 15 minutes and verified the EO numbers but you didn't want to spend the 3 mins and screwed him. That's the problem with this system. You get penalized for someone else not doing their job properly.

If I don't fail a car that has a wrong part (undercover vehicle), I can lose my license but if I fail one that has a legal part, I don't get anything but rewarded with good fpr? Great logic by the BAR

Take for example, a catalytic converter I found under a Dodge Ram. Looked like it was changed (welds) but I can't verify if its a stock dealer california cat or the federal version. Customer states a reputable shop did the job a while back due to his old one breaking apart and its always passed. I called the BAR help desk and they tell me to pass it because unless I can verify its "not legal", its perfectly fine to be on the car. So now it will go to your shop next time and you'll fail it dinging me in the process when i clearly did my due diligence and my job.

I've done a lot of research on this in the past and posted it on the CAL ARC site. Graphed out a ton of techs fpr and the only way to raise and keep your fpr is to do volume smogs. Everyone is going to make little mistakes when smogging, regardless of how good you are but the only way to cover up those mistakes is volume. This is why volume techs tend to have better than normal fprs unless they're making a ton of mistakes.

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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

Juicebox
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
About 95% of all major aftermarket parts companies have pictures associated with whatever part they are supplying. Its literally that easy, does it look the same as the picture? If yes, find the associated E.O. # which 95% also supply somewhere in the parts description or vehicle application. Then go to ARB and verify that it is in fact legal for the vehicle you are testing. Failing for no sticker is an asshole move, and honestly lazy in my opinion. I've found that if a company doesn't list an e.o. # with the part they are supplying, 9 times out of 10 it isn't legal. Also, most of the time it will state not certified for sale in CA.

A missing or illegible
APL does not constitute an inspection failure. -  It literally states it in the paragraph you posted. Also, how do you know that the E.O. # sticker that is under the hood is for the same part # that is on the vehicle since almost no intakes have any part #s on them. I can slap a K&N sticker on anything... Use common sense and resources that are readily available to us. I have yet to find an aftermarket part that is approved without a picture.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

His_Stigness
Juicebox wrote
About 95% of all major aftermarket parts companies have pictures associated with whatever part they are supplying. Its literally that easy, does it look the same as the picture? If yes, find the associated E.O. # which 95% also supply somewhere in the parts description or vehicle application. Then go to ARB and verify that it is in fact legal for the vehicle you are testing. Failing for no sticker is an asshole move, and honestly lazy in my opinion. I've found that if a company doesn't list an e.o. # with the part they are supplying, 9 times out of 10 it isn't legal. Also, most of the time it will state not certified for sale in CA.

A missing or illegible
APL does not constitute an inspection failure. -  It literally states it in the paragraph you posted. Also, how do you know that the E.O. # sticker that is under the hood is for the same part # that is on the vehicle since almost no intakes have any part #s on them. I can slap a K&N sticker on anything... Use common sense and resources that are readily available to us. I have yet to find an aftermarket part that is approved without a picture.
Let's stick with the Tacoma example I posted about originally. The guy came back this morning with the sticker for the intake. But as I was testing his car I read your comment and looked up for shits and giggles. The picture that Toyota has on the part listing DO NOT match what's installed on the car. In fact, the one that's on the car looks more like the 49 state one TRD has on their site. I knew the first time I tested it I either wouldn't find the EO, or the information wouldn't match on Toyota's website because in my experience, TRD stuff is shit and a pain in the ass.

BUT, by me being an asshole, according to you, this guy CORRECTED the issue, so now he won't have an issue on all future smogs. I did the customer a favor, and I did all the other techs that will smog it a favor. That's why nine times out of ten I will fail cars for missing labels even though I can usually verify it (K&N being the most common). And nine times out of ten the customer comes back and THANKS ME for failing their car and making them correct it. "I didn't know about that until now. This was super easy to fix." And for that 10% of people that are assholes, fuck em. I'm not in this job to make friends, I'm here to make sure the program is effective.

The regulations are written vaguely on purpose. It not only allows technicians leeway, but it also allows the BAR room to either slap your hand, or commend you. But as they always tell me when I call, when in doubt, FAIL THE CAR, or send it to the Ref.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

Technician A
In reply to this post by Juicebox
Juicebox wrote
About 95% of all major aftermarket parts companies have pictures associated with whatever part they are supplying. Its literally that easy, does it look the same as the picture? If yes, find the associated E.O. # which 95% also supply somewhere in the parts description or vehicle application. Then go to ARB and verify that it is in fact legal for the vehicle you are testing.
I use to do this. Then there was a bar blast about 3-4 years ago that said not to use the pictures on the internet to verify aftermarket parts. Now I fail and show customers how to get the carb sticker.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

Juicebox
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
Or, the one that was on the car was the 49 state one and all he did was get a sticker for the 50 state one, and since theres no actual part # on the intake you cant verify either way. Chances are the intake on the car is not the intake for the sicker he brought in. So he didnt actually correct anything, just got a sticker. I can get a sticker from K&N or TRD or wherever for whatever and Supply you with it. I still always look it up and verify its the same as whats on the car.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

No One
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
<quote author="His_Stigness">
Juicebox wrote
And for that 10% of people that are assholes, fuck em. I'm not in this job to make friends, I'm here to make sure I make money.**
Fixed it for you

And this is a lot more easier done than said, but you should always be nice about it when doing the doing.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

laziiee
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
Technician A and his_stigness are you two seriously still think it's ok to fail a car for not having an EO label? The regulation is not written vaguely at all, it clearly say missing label  does not constitute an inspection failure i don't know how more clear can it be, but you two clearly say you will keep failing car because of label. If you don't want to take the time to verify it then punt it or do it right. And leave the shit about the customers come back to thanks you, customers are moron and don't know what they talking about 99.99% of the time, they will say anything to try to get you to pass their car.
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Re: This is why your FPR score keeps going down.

laziiee
In reply to this post by His_Stigness
And before  you guys start to get defensive this exact same case happen to me at my shop, one of my competitor shop this fucker will fail every single car for not having label and once in awhile some of those customer will find their way to my shop and of course i will pass it if I can verify it and the customers will ask how come that guy over there fail me, he's my competitor but we still in the same industry so i always make up some bullshit excuse like "technically you need the sticker" so the other guy at the other shop don't get in trouble or look bad and that usually enough cause they are happy their car pass, like i said customer are morons. But one time this customer went back to his shop and ask for their money back cause he said his car pass fine at my shop the fucker call me up and cuss me out saying im not doing my job and won't give the customer the inspection fees back cause he's think he's doing it righ lol. So the customer complain to the bar and so by law they have to send a bar rep out and did an investigation, guess what was the end result. Long story short the customer  got their inspection fees back lol. So yall keep doing you.
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