Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

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Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
What would you do?

It was a 2003 Ford Mustang.

Had several aftermarket parts including headers, intake, dual cats. Everything had correct EO labels except the cats which the owner admitted were aftermarket. But since the car was lowered I could not take a clear picture of the EO numbers on the cats with my phone. Pics just came out blurry and illegible because cat was too close to the camera for a clear shot. Asked owner if he had any paperwork for the cats so I could get EO off the paperwork. He said he did not....so I had to fail it.
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

barrym95838
Administrator
I never fail a vehicle unless I'm certain of the defect or tamper ... it just doesn't strike me as fair to the customer or the previous inspector.  If I can't verify an EO# with reasonable effort, I will mentally flip a loaded coin and reject or pass depending on the outcome of that flip.

barrym95838
EO/EI/LA/BA144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

manboobs
In reply to this post by drivecycle
I try to jack them up if possible
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

none
In reply to this post by drivecycle
drivecycle wrote
What would you do?...
....so I had to fail it.
I wouldn't fail it. I would reject it though. Jeep Wranglers with the skid plates can be tough too.

I avoid modified cars and trucks. I ask diesel truck, Corvette, WRX, and Mustang owners up front if the car is all stock. If they don't have labels for everything it isn't worth my time to look it up.

I jack up cars to check cat numbers all the time (especially Hondas) and I use extension mirrors all day long to see cat numbers, rear O2 sensors, and canisters.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

SoCalSmogGuy
In reply to this post by drivecycle
drivecycle wrote
What would you do?


Asked owner if he had any paperwork for the cats so I could get EO off the paperwork. He said he did not....so I had to fail it.
This is why the FPR is a ridiculous metric. Now the previous tech to inspect this vehicle just took a ding because the current tech doesn't know what he's doing.

You didn't have to fail it, you chose to fail it.

If you cannot verify components on a vehicle that is a you problem, not a problem with the vehicle. Reject it and let a shop who knows what they are doing test it or let the referee inspect it.

What would I do?
I would do my utmost to verify those aftermarket cat's or I would reject the test. I wouldn't fail the vehicle unless I visually verified the cat's are not CARB approved. How would I verify? Jack up the damn car.
Work Smarter AND Harder
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

Johnnybeme
In reply to this post by drivecycle
Whatever it takes to confirm your assumption, (pass or fail) you have to be absolutely sure and back that up with documentation. You said you failed it? Better have a good legal reason or give back the money and get a ding from BAR if he complains. I do not understand failing because you are unsure.

JM
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

Lose weight
In reply to this post by drivecycle
The question is what will you do if the customer decides to file a complaint because the other shop he/she went to after  used a jack to lift the car and verify the converter(s)? Seems like you need to add a jack to your tool arsenal.
Make America Healthy Again, Stop overeating phatties!
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
Lose weight wrote
The question is what will you do if the customer decides to file a complaint because the other shop he/she went to after  used a jack to lift the car and verify the converter(s)? Seems like you need to add a jack to your tool arsenal.

Complain about what? Its not my fault his EO numbers are not clearly displayed. Its the customers fault for not having his EO numbers available and/or clearly marked. Unless I'm mistaken the book does not require us to jack up the vehicle for any reason.

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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

D Rochells 150861
You are correct that the book does not require such, however it does require you to visually verify the components. And while we are not required to lift the vehicle, yet we are not prohibited from doing so either. You also could have used a selfie stick or USB camera. You did not verify the EO number, you made an assumption.


SCM November 2017

If a station lacks the equipment, tools, or reference materials necessary to
inspect or repair a particular vehicle, the station must reject the vehicle
before starting an inspection or repair.
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
D Rochells 150861 wrote
You are correct that the book does not require such, however it does require you to visually verify the components. And while we are not required to lift the vehicle, yet we are not prohibited from doing so either. You also could have used a selfie stick or USB camera. You did not verify the EO number, you made an assumption.


SCM November 2017

If a station lacks the equipment, tools, or reference materials necessary to
inspect or repair a particular vehicle, the station must reject the vehicle
before starting an inspection or repair.

Like I said I used a camera but since the car was lowered the camera was too close to take a clear picture.
A phone camera wont work at that distance.
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

D Rochells 150861
In any case you are in the wrong and if BAR gets involved you will be asked to return the money. I'm sorry if you don't understand why, it's just the way the program works. I have used wheel chocks to slightly lift a wheel before, I positioned the cats above the dyno and lowered the lift to get enough room to get the mirror underneath.

I once had to return money for a defective PCV nipple, our tech put his hand on it and found it loose and not sealing to the valve cover. Customer complained and the rep told us it was a visual inspection only.

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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
First of all, how do you even jack up a car when it is lowered? The jack won't even fit.
You will likely damage the side skirts trying to force a floor jack under a lowered car.

Secondly since the car is lowered you cannot see the lift point very well and you are at great risk of damaging not just the body and frame but also the underside of the car by jacking up the wrong lift point. It's a dumb risk when you aren't even required to do it. I never worked in a test only that even had room for a very large piece of equipment like a floor jack.  Test only shops tend to be very cramped with such limited space that customers have to wait outside the building. Where the heck are you going to store a floor jack without tripping over it every 5 minutes? You not only have to find space for the jack but also the jackstands.

Not only do you risk destroying the customers car but also the risk of the vehicle slipping off the floor jack and crushing you like a grape while squeezing yourself under the lifted vehicle. But by all means do it if you feel you must its your life.
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
Anywho, if the customer comes back again and can't produce the paperwork or other legit source for the cat EO numbers I will just give him his money back and call it a day. To make matters worse he mentioned something about having an aftermarket chip. So this stupid thing is getting to be way too much trouble than its worth.

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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

none
In reply to this post by drivecycle
WOW, I thought I had a small shop.

drivecycle wrote
...Not only do you risk destroying the customers car but also the risk of the vehicle slipping off the floor jack and crushing you like a grape while squeezing yourself under the lifted vehicle. But by all means do it if you feel you must its your life.
I think anyone who works on cars as a career should know a jack is for lifting and jack stands are for holding it in place.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

Troll
The lowered car are a royal pain for checking eo's.  They dont want to to go ref cause they'll say- make it stock.  Most shit is not right for car-
I respectfully agree with not, or unable   to jack up car. I'd rather do the lowered cars than the raised piece of shits. And don't offer do refund money.  
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

SoCalSmogGuy
In reply to this post by none
none wrote
I think anyone who works on cars as a career should know a jack is for lifting and jack stands are for holding it in place.
Work Smarter AND Harder
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

BasicTech678
SoCalSmogGuy wrote
none wrote
I think anyone who works on cars as a career should know a jack is for lifting and jack stands are for holding it in place.
wow
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

BasicTech678
In reply to this post by drivecycle
drivecycle wrote
What would you do?

It was a 2003 Ford Mustang.

Had several aftermarket parts including headers, intake, dual cats. Everything had correct EO labels except the cats which the owner admitted were aftermarket. But since the car was lowered I could not take a clear picture of the EO numbers on the cats with my phone. Pics just came out blurry and illegible because cat was too close to the camera for a clear shot. Asked owner if he had any paperwork for the cats so I could get EO off the paperwork. He said he did not....so I had to fail it.
first charge extra labor, roll the pos on a 2x4 front wheel only( since i feel this has to be very specific to understand.) slide your jack at this point it dont even have to be low profile one. pump few times you can now get one in the back if you feel like being extra cautions. use your jack stand if your gonna actually slide under it, using your creeper if you feel like being a super tech or use my favorite piece of cardboard or nothing which is easier. take a few photos with and without flash, with your phone we all have em they all have good cameras now. or just use a selfie stick. repeat for the other side. if not just boot it.  you could of aborted it and still charged him a fee, plenty of shops charge for pass,fail or abort. by failing it you leave your self open for a visit from the bar.  

unless its a corvette or some other fiberglass body vehicle the body is not gonna warp on you.
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

Kevin
In reply to this post by none
I do the inspection to the best of my ability if I can't get the numbers off the cat then a greatly depends on my Gut instinct at that point if I feel the customer suspect then I am why the reject the vehicle or fail the vehicle. Sometime in this industry will let you know which vehicles are tampered
EO/EI/BA certifications ASE Master Certified Chrysler Master Certified Ford Certified Wyotech Graduate Sequoia Institute Graduate 20+ year experience
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Re: Vehicle lowered, impossible to see EO number on aftermarket cats

drivecycle
In reply to this post by none
none wrote
WOW, I thought I had a small shop.

drivecycle wrote
...Not only do you risk destroying the customers car but also the risk of the vehicle slipping off the floor jack and crushing you like a grape while squeezing yourself under the lifted vehicle. But by all means do it if you feel you must its your life.
I think anyone who works on cars as a career should know a jack is for lifting and jack stands are for holding it in place.
Show me where it says a test only technician has to jack up a vehicle for any reason? Plenty of videos on Youtube proves jackstands can and often do fail. I've worked in or visited dozens of test only shops. Never in my life have I seen a TO that kept a floor jack on hand...for the purpose of jacking up a LOWERED VEHICLE? Because no one I know is dumb enough to do that.

It's an unnecessary waste of time, dangerous, and not required. But knock yourself out.
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