Was I being too strict?

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Was I being too strict?

barrym95838
Administrator
I just failed a '94 Corolla 1.8L with Federal emissions (one cat total) with a D-193-84 installed (PC-2).  The Catalytic converter data-base is expanding down into OBD-I areas, and it does appear on the list for a CA (two cat total) Corolla, but the PC-2 installed on a PC-1 was enough for me.

I have passed 18 OIS vehicles in a row, and counting.  That's unusual for this neighborhood.

I have failed 7 BAR-97 vehicles in a row, and counting.  That's unusual, even for this god-forsaken neighborhood.

barrym95838
EO/EI144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: Was I being too strict?

FiendFX
PC2 is a fail..
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Re: Was I being too strict?

cosmokramertheassman
In reply to this post by barrym95838
I would have failed said vehicle as well. You did the right thing.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Centralized Smog
In reply to this post by barrym95838
I did the same last week. Except my vehicle being tested was a 95 Corolla 1.8L with CA emissions.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

barrym95838
Administrator
In reply to this post by barrym95838
Okay, what do you T&R guys think about this?  The customer wants us to hang a proper cat so he can get on with his life, but we have more responsibility while installing a fresh cat than we do while inspecting it (I would have probably passed any PC-1 on the initial inspection).  My boss just told me that he can't find a proper PC-1 cat for this vehicle ... since the CARB site is of no help (everything is CA PC-2), what do you suggest that we do?

barrym95838
EO/EI144107
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
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Re: Was I being too strict?

FiendFX
Call MagnaFlow or Walker and ask for a PC-1 CAT and have it installed.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Karupt
In reply to this post by barrym95838
Barry , I thought that Federal cars were to have any catalytic converter that fits engines size and model and year since the exhaust config on a federal requires only one cat and there are none with the
CA models .  . as long as they are CA approved . Since they are required to have CA cats installed .There are no CA corollas that year with one cat by the way . so any pc 2 would've done the job . THis I go from CARB person via phone . I don't know what do you guys think ?
 
iha
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Re: Was I being too strict?

iha
At an update class the instructor ( Referee) went thru his procedure for OBD1 cat converters. Basically, check for T vs PC cat converter. There was no mention of PC1 vs PC2 and nobody in the update class bothered to ask.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

none
In reply to this post by FiendFX
FiendFX wrote
Call MagnaFlow or Walker and ask for a PC-1 CAT and have it installed.
I totally agree with what he said. That is how I would do it.

We can not change the configuration and add a second cat and I won't pass it with only one PC2 cat. BUT if it calls for one cat and is OBD-I then when the EO# matches for PC-1, my job is done and it is a pass.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Karupt
In reply to this post by iha
iha wrote
At an update class the instructor ( Referee) went thru his procedure for OBD1 cat converters. Basically, check for T vs PC cat converter. There was no mention of PC1 vs PC2 and nobody in the update class bothered to ask.
  This is exactly what referees are doing when a federal truck or car has one cat and ca has two . they just pick one that's "most similar and put it on .especially when they are only sold as pc2 or t-2 . I stand corrected ! that vehicle does too have only one cat California and FEderal . IT was definitely a fail and put a pc one on it !
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Re: Was I being too strict?

none
Karupt wrote
 I stand corrected ! that vehicle does too have only one cat California and FEderal . IT was definitely a fail and put a pc one on it !
California model 1994 Corolla 1.8L has two cats.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: Was I being too strict?

FiendFX
In reply to this post by iha
I don't know why your instructor didn't talked about PC-1 and PC-2. But the BAR blast is what matters..

http://www.bar.ca.gov/PubWebQuery/EtBlast/PrintMsg.aspx?QryMessageKey=34105
Ee
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Ee
In reply to this post by barrym95838
on the inspection side it could go either way. Im a test and repair and every  time I run into a FED car came with a 3way 1 cat, but CA uses 2 . This the pc2 under body cat is tiny 1 brick cat 1way . and it works together with the front, so if you install this tiny 1 brick cat its probably  going to fail emissions, or sqeek thru, so every time I see a FED mid 90's car its trouble.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Karupt
In reply to this post by none
NOne you are correct the 1.8 liter CA has two cats the federal that is being driven in CA has only one , I think I would have left the pc2 one on there since that is what CARB says to do , unless they do make a pc-1 cat for that year that model which I doubt
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Re: Was I being too strict?

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Ee
Ee,

The corolla that has that tiny brick cat you are mentioning about is CA certified. The FED certified doesn't have the tiny cat, it has a regular cat.
Ee
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Ee
yes the original cat on FED is a 3 way, but what I see happening lots of times shops install a pc2 1 brick under car cert for CA   tiny cat on these FED cars, and its probably good on visual but emissions fail, its going from a 3 way to a 2 way, and most inspections on obd1 we would just look for a D# and it would pass visually.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

none
In reply to this post by Karupt
Karupt wrote
NOne you are correct the 1.8 liter CA has two cats the federal that is being driven in CA has only one , I think I would have left the pc2 one on there since that is what CARB says to do , unless they do make a pc-1 cat for that year that model which I doubt
Do I understand you correctly that you would pass this FED 1994 Corolla with only one PC-2 cat but you would fail it with a PC-1 cat installed if the part number doesn't match the make and model?
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Centralized Smog
In reply to this post by barrym95838
If there are no aftermarket ones available, then the next step would be to see if Toyota still has any for sale. The flanges are probably gone, so you would need to weld on new ones also.

The 94 Celica 1.8L has listings for a pc1 cat. But I don't think that would be legal to install.
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Re: Was I being too strict?

FiendFX
CS,

Why would it NOT be legal to install? Unless you got a fitment issue than that's another story..
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Re: Was I being too strict?

Centralized Smog
As an installer, you have to put in the correct cat for that specific vehicle. Similar to how we smog techs check the Obd2 cats, the installer must do the same for all vehicles including the older ones.
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