clean gassing

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Re: clean gassing

dcf1ver
No One wrote
dcf1ver wrote
No One wrote
Also a failed gas audit can be used to back up the machine acting up during these isolated incidents.
Isolated?

You do realize several stations were popped and their suspected vehicles displayed the same exhaust gas irregularities. There were over 100 vehicles that were flagged.

I'd hardly call 100 vehicles isolated incidents. I also doubt failed gas will cause the 3  exhaust gasses in question to rise,fall and rise again during the ASM run.
I also like my choice of words lol.


Im talking about hermanos smog. They had 12 diff incidents listed, not 100s. The other shops, well I only checked one other shop and saw 15 incidents. And how many shops have they popped for them clean gassing? This is new and I just heard about it not too long ago? Have not heard of shops getting popped, but heard of shops machines gettling locked and then having their machine audited.
Honestly I think they(BAR) stopped at just 10 cars with Hermanos. Enough to buid a case. Im sure there could have been much more had they chose to continue digging.

The trend among all the shops listed is the same, looks like they stopped digging a little after 10 vehicles. I doubt thats a coincidence.

Every single shop in the link the OP put is charged with clean gassing.
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Re: clean gassing

scanner
In reply to this post by Johnnybeme
Johnnybeme wrote
After reading some of the EVIDENCE I wonder if anyone has asked the question, HOW? None of the cases has actual evidence of what was used to fool the machine.
This type of fraudulent smog inspection has been going on for at least 4 years.    At least, that was when I first found out how the Test Only owner down the street at the time was introducing MIG welding gas into the tail pipe.  

https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/accusations/ei-134615_2015_09_25_dec.pdf

There were some Youtube videos that showed how they fooled the EIS.  BAR must have petitioned Youtube to remove them.  Some of the perpetrators just used the wrong blend and got caught.   If you introduced a mixture of 90% Argon and 10% CO2 into the tail pipe, just before the pickup,  it would fool the EIS.   If you're not so bright, and introduced 80% Argon and 20% CO2, you'd get a reading that a car can't produce, but would pass the ASM test.   Our machines can't measure Argon.

What if the whole problem is a wacky gas bench? The machine is sealed and very sensitive to tamper, how did all of this happen? The system is twenty years old! I would be very suspect of the data being reliable enough to condemn someone without a reasonable explanation of how the readings were accomplished. I want to know what gas was used. I want to know how it got introduced to the exhaust sample. I want to know what the compensation was for this service. This smells bad to me.

JM
The system isn't 20 years old.  We all update last year, and you updated before that.  

Man, all you guys were arguing how superior the ASM test is to the OBDII test.  Now you're saying with all the upgrades that the data isn't reliable enough.  



Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: clean gassing

Johnnybeme
Scanner

No one hates BAR. But you cannot close you mind to the facts. In the evidence there is no equipment or apparatus to accomplish the data. Indeed the gas bench is the same 5 gas we have used for many years. I just think that to condemn anyone for this kind of blatant fraud you have to have a complete story. Look at OIS and how if all the monitors are set and there are no codes we accept that the vehicle does not pollute? We all know that a 200,000 miles vehicle would fail  ASM. But we play the game as written. I have followed citations and read many, these just strike me as odd because the BAR does not get down to it's normal unquestionable procedure it leans more on the data from a machine of which we have little or no control.

JM

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Re: clean gassing

dcf1ver
Johnnybeme wrote
Scanner

No one hates BAR. But you cannot close you mind to the facts. In the evidence there is no equipment or apparatus to accomplish the data. Indeed the gas bench is the same 5 gas we have used for many years. I just think that to condemn anyone for this kind of blatant fraud you have to have a complete story. Look at OIS and how if all the monitors are set and there are no codes we accept that the vehicle does not pollute? We all know that a 200,000 miles vehicle would fail  ASM. But we play the game as written. I have followed citations and read many, these just strike me as odd because the BAR does not get down to it's normal unquestionable procedure it leans more on the data from a machine of which we have little or no control.

JM
Would you dismiss the 100+ vehicles that failed across 9 shops, all in the same manner, as a coincidence of gas bench failure?

Could you formulate a logical explanation as to how the exhaust gasses behaved the way they did?(the readings rose sharply,the fell,then rose sharply again,this is what flagged these vehicles)


Remember we are only seeing a synopsis as to how the conclusion was drawn. No doubt in court a more detailed explanation will be given if requested by the defendants lawyers.
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Re: clean gassing

none
I personally am GLAD that the cheaters are getting busted. I'm sure there is more evidence than we see and the defendants will have their day in court.
People are usually shocked when they find out I'm not a very good electrician.
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Re: clean gassing

Best Answer I Can Give
 Why did they bother? There is so many EASIER ways to cheat.
 Never make fun of the choices your wife makes. You were one of them.
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Re: clean gassing

No One
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
Why did they bother? There is so many EASIER ways to cheat.
I know, right? Clean piping only brings your fpr score down.
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Re: clean gassing

Johnnybeme
In reply to this post by dcf1ver
I do not discount anything. But I do have questions that no one answers. Are all the deviations similar? Would this conclude that they used the same gas? Where was it purchased? What would be it's compound to achieve the results? Was there compensation in addition to regular charges that could be traced? What if any similarities exist between the machines executing the tests? Where they all Worldwide? Where they all ESP? Where there any similarities with the types of vehicles? I could go on, but most important what was the position of Neptune?


JM

 Charge more and be Happy!
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Re: clean gassing

dcf1ver
Johnnybeme wrote
I do not discount anything. But I do have questions that no one answers. Are all the deviations similar? Would this conclude that they used the same gas? Where was it purchased? What would be it's compound to achieve the results? Was there compensation in addition to regular charges that could be traced? What if any similarities exist between the machines executing the tests? Where they all Worldwide? Where they all ESP? Where there any similarities with the types of vehicles? I could go on, but most important what was the position of Neptune?


JM

 Charge more and be Happy!
Those are legit questions, that hopefully for the defendants, their lawyers ask.

I doubt anyone here has those answers,as they would require insider knowledge of the case(s).

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Re: clean gassing

none
In reply to this post by Johnnybeme
Johnnybeme wrote
... Would this conclude that they used the same gas? Where was it purchased? What would be it's compound to achieve the results?...
My guess is MIG welding gasses. I have Argon/CO2 mix in my shop plus straight argon and straight CO2. The mix is available in 2% CO2 and 25% CO2. There are also some Helium blends too all at your local welding supply.
People are usually shocked when they find out I'm not a very good electrician.
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Re: clean gassing

Best Answer I Can Give
 I would like to know, Who thunk of it?
 Never make fun of the choices your wife makes. You were one of them.
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Re: clean gassing

No One
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
I would like to know, Who thunk of it?
someone looking to bypass the incorrect gear ratio deviation
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Re: clean gassing

Johnnybeme
If they know the data that a vehicle cannot possibly produce then why would the programing let the vehicle be tested? Just like sample dilution the machine should have parameters that are not negotiable. Like Besta says far easier to cheat especially with older cars.  I just think that this kind of data comparison needs supporting data. There has got to be a way to verify with camera such a obvious fraud. Introducing anything into the tailpipe sample has to be difficult unless a special apparatus is used and I would love to see that instrument. I would feel better if they had confiscated a gas bottle and injection apparatus to match their allegation.

Jm
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Re: clean gassing

No One
Actually the machine gets locked and audited now if anyone clean gasses.
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Re: clean gassing

Best Answer I Can Give
 What 10 shop's? They must know each other. 10 shops. !0 shops with the money to beat the BAR. Personally I think they stand a chance.
BAR has no hands on PROOF. The only person holding information and that is done thru a machine, a machine that CAN BE CHEATED. BAR argues that the machine can be LIED to. Well that is a 2 way street.
BAR has no Video evidence of them doing a "Clean Gassing" Just, look Judge, Evidence we put together.

Yes BAR will win at the "Administrative Court" But in front of a REAL Judge, A Federal Judge it will be thrown out, NO HANDS ON PROOF.

 10 shops. 10 sets of money to fight it. 10 shops that can hire 1 lawyer. and afford it. A good lawyer can beat this.
All they have to do is bring up how crooked the STAR program is and the BAR will fold.
 Never make fun of the choices your wife makes. You were one of them.
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Re: clean gassing

BasicTech678
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
What 10 shop's? They must know each other. 10 shops. !0 shops with the money to beat the BAR. Personally I think they stand a chance.
BAR has no hands on PROOF. The only person holding information and that is done thru a machine, a machine that CAN BE CHEATED. BAR argues that the machine can be LIED to. Well that is a 2 way street.
BAR has no Video evidence of them doing a "Clean Gassing" Just, look Judge, Evidence we put together.

Yes BAR will win at the "Administrative Court" But in front of a REAL Judge, A Federal Judge it will be thrown out, NO HANDS ON PROOF.

 10 shops. 10 sets of money to fight it. 10 shops that can hire 1 lawyer. and afford it. A good lawyer can beat this.
All they have to do is bring up how crooked the STAR program is and the BAR will fold.
do you have any proof a "real judge" would throw it out or you are just assuming? if its that simple why hasnt anyone of the hundreds of cheaters done it yet?
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Re: clean gassing

No One
BasicTech678 wrote
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
What 10 shop's? They must know each other. 10 shops. !0 shops with the money to beat the BAR. Personally I think they stand a chance.
BAR has no hands on PROOF. The only person holding information and that is done thru a machine, a machine that CAN BE CHEATED. BAR argues that the machine can be LIED to. Well that is a 2 way street.
BAR has no Video evidence of them doing a "Clean Gassing" Just, look Judge, Evidence we put together.

Yes BAR will win at the "Administrative Court" But in front of a REAL Judge, A Federal Judge it will be thrown out, NO HANDS ON PROOF.

 10 shops. 10 sets of money to fight it. 10 shops that can hire 1 lawyer. and afford it. A good lawyer can beat this.
All they have to do is bring up how crooked the STAR program is and the BAR will fold.
do you have any proof a "real judge" would throw it out or you are just assuming? if its that simple why hasnt anyone of the hundreds of cheaters done it yet?
Its funny that he says that. I sent my lawyer the link and he said that unless they have video evidence, that BAR has nothing on the clean gassing.
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Re: clean gassing

dcf1ver
No One wrote
Its funny that he says that. I sent my lawyer the link and he said that unless they have video evidence, that BAR has nothing on the clean gassing.
Oh shit maybe youre right.

I was digging through some old threads and found that Hermanos Test only was the lead plaintiff in the original lawsuit to Stop the Star program, 8 years ago.


Maybe this is retaliation from the BAR!!!

Freaking A!!
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Re: clean gassing

Best Answer I Can Give
 HARD EVIDENCE. The very reason the deal the Big Dog tried and was thrown out for. NO HARD EVIDENCE.
To complex.

 We THINK is not HARD EVIDENCE. We have no in hand proof.
 Never make fun of the choices your wife makes. You were one of them.
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Re: clean gassing

smog frogposter
In reply to this post by dcf1ver
dcf1ver wrote
No One wrote
Its funny that he says that. I sent my lawyer the link and he said that unless they have video evidence, that BAR has nothing on the clean gassing.
Oh shit maybe youre right.

I was digging through some old threads and found that Hermanos Test only was the lead plaintiff in the original lawsuit to Stop the Star program, 8 years ago.


Maybe this is retaliation from the BAR!!!

Freaking A!!
How deep does this rabbit hole go?
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