how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

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how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Karupt
 Other than the customer telling you ,does BAR expect us to remove the Pcm from its spot , open the cover and look for a diagram on stock pcms and then compare to customers ?
   Will the OIS know it has an aftermarket pcm and fail the vehicle ? I just rejected an Acura , cat monitor wouldn't set for weeks then he comes back and tells me he put his performance chip back in and all monitors cleared . I told him to take it elsewhere . what would you have done? And is there an easier way to tell if it has a performance chip ?
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Kriss Vector
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

kfworry
If OIS DAD is "so good" you'd think it would detect performance chips
without us second guessing the vehicle.
I'm not going to take the time to "dig into" the PCM, it's not worth it,
to "see" a chip.
BAR should have thought about it when they developed this garbage
type of testing.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by Karupt
I have seen an 2001 Audi S4 and a 2002 Saab 9-5 pass with the EVAP monitor showing Not Supported. I could tell by the sound and power production that something was wrong, but whatever was there was not visible.

I asked Rocky whether checking monitors is an acceptable way of determining whether a buried component is there or not during inspections. He agreed that that made sense, however the current regulations do not allow such.

I am feeling that they know the OIS passes modded ECMs and they don't want us checking monitors because we would all realize OIS was defective in this matter.

Also their own UC runs seem to mod the ECM to pass monitors for missing AIR.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Karupt
This post was updated on .
I gather from these answers , that I do the vehicle as is , if the OIS picks up on the chip mod. then it will fail it , if does not pick up on it , then whatever . This chip I am talking about was inside the ecm itself , the guy unscrewed it and opened it ,it looked like a memory or ram card for a pc .
   Thanks guys , I can't fail a vehicle for "suspicion of ecm modification" nor for suspicion that evap canister is not above the fuel tank . I try to comment in the comments box ,- evap canister not visible ,all hoses and lines lead to top of fuel tank .
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Smogtech
M you talking about the rsx-S?  
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Karupt
I believe it was an rsx ..
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

D Rochells 150861
Hey, bar said you have to take covers off, pull that ECM apart, it is your duty.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Kriss Vector
The OIS does NOT catches the performance chip. That's the smog tech's duty. On gasoline vehicles, the ones with performance chip on all monitor will show complete or not supported so it could bypass and pass the OIS. Performance chip on diesels such as Ford, the vehicle will shutoff during the OIS test. That's what I have notice so far.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

none
I'm with FX that the OIS will not fail a "performance" tune in the ECU.

On the FORD 7.3L diesel shutting off issue, that is normal even without a chip. It is listed on the smog check OBD reference guide. If you look at the ECU on 7.3L diesel, which is next to the parking brake, you will see if there is a performance chip plugged in because the black plastic cover will be cut out for it and the chip is visible. This is not the case if it has a program downloaded into the computer which is common.

Superchips is one that when installed there is no visible signs. It is just a program in the software. The days of the old GM ECM where you would change the PROM to a performance one are pretty much gone with 2000 and newer cars.
Don't take advice from me. You'll just end up drunk.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by FiendFX
"APR is pleased to present the ultimate engine control unit (ECU) upgrade for the 1.8 TSI EA888 Gen 3 engine. APR’s ECU upgrade is available in octane-specific variations and is conveniently flashed to the vehicle’s factory ECU through the OBD-II port without any physical modification to the factory ECU."

I would love to catch such things, but that would involve using common sense and checking the monitors, also the customers usually have a tell if you just ask them. I know that the BAR does not want that so I will just continue pressing buttons.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Voltron
D for those hit the cruise button and you will be able to tell if the apr mod is in it. Ive caught several. Idle usualy will change
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

kfworry
In reply to this post by D Rochells 150861
We are not allowed to interrogate the customer whether or not there is a performance
chip. We are not the Judge and Jury.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

D Rochells 150861
We can ask them whatever we want that is pertinent to our performing the inspection correctly and reject them for any reason, we have the right to refuse service. I did not say interrogate. I ask them before the test if there are any aftermarket parts as that adds a substantial amount of time to the inspection. I also give them the chance to go away and make it stock or look stock before the test if there is anything that will not pass.

The smog book doesn't say to hit the cruise control switch to verify no ECM mods either, I am sure if the customer complained BAR would say visual inspection only, give the money back. I will of course start doing this, thanks Jvolman.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Voltron
Im a car modder so i look at a lot of tuning sights and read about the cruise button switch on aprs site. I usually tell them i know whats in there and they do the shit eating smirk like how'd he know that. Its then that i fail them cause we both know I caught them dead to rights
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

none
jvolman wrote
Im a car modder ...
That goes to the old saying, It takes a thief to catch a thief. I have done diesel modifications and now I know what to look for when they come in.
Don't take advice from me. You'll just end up drunk.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

D Rochells 150861
In reply to this post by Voltron
Yeah they do that stuff on Nissans too. BAR has burned me out to the point that I don't care if its modded so long as it passes the visual.

The first time I saw an OBD1 MIL swapped with Oil pressure signal, I was pissed and called BAR to suggest we amend the test to include unplugging a sensor to ensure the MIL was MILing properly. Well I got a lecture of the robustness of the SMECK II ECM and I really don't think he understood what I was talking about.

Almost anytime I point out a flaw in our system they act like their brain has a flashing random misfire code.
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Karupt
In reply to this post by D Rochells 150861
D, hahahhah LOL , Right , All covers have to come off ,but they didn't say we gotta Drop the queso, I mean the gas tank too!!!
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

Karupt
In reply to this post by FiendFX
Fiendfx , you said "it will show not supported or Complete monitors"  all the monitors not supported would be a red flag definitely,so would the vehicle turning off during inspections .But all monitors complete is what we as techs are actually striving for last time I checked .
  Thanks Fiend, for that tidbit , I know this is from your own experience that you speak, but I work at test only and usually don't prescan vehicles unless they  are ready to walk away I will throw in my suave persuasion tactics ,and a free pre scan with it . I know we can all see the obvious mods .I guess I won't worry so much like Kfworry said , if the OIS is so dam good and cheaterproof , it should catch these ecm modifications .
 love the day is nice and cool , feels like fall is finally here !
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Re: how can we tell if vehicle has a performance chip ?

FiendFX
karupt,

I used to be a Test Only also and always had pre-screen because of SVFR. Before STAR came about, I NEVER pre-scanned.
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