undercovers with cameras

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Ee
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undercovers with cameras

Ee
I heard of a undercover on the repair side going around with the check engine light on, so the car is failed and diagnosed with bad sensor, so the smog tech has his helper that is not a smog repair tech replace the sensor and the shop got the citation and the smog tech  got a citation. It was all recorded and showed the helper change the sensor. I guess by law you must be a licensed smog repair tech to do any repairs having to do with smog. So when the car is certified it asks who repaired it at your shop and you are the only name there you click it and you sign the VIR your popped.  I know of alot of shops with 1 smog tech and 2 helpers doing all the R&R, everything from bad sensors to cats,    I think with camera technology, they will  be popping more and more shops. Be carefull
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Re: undercovers with cameras

barrym95838
Administrator
My co-worker R&Rs the cats, because he is a FAR better welder than I am.  I perform and document the intrusive tests, though.  The whole "were repairs performed" BS makes me sick, because if I answer yes then it implies that I did everything, which is almost never the full story, with all the half-assed shit going on with the customers and their baby's daddy's ace-mechanic uncles, and the CrAP program tight-wad assholes, and the muffler shop down the street ... I am so sick of legitimately certifying freshly polished turds, knowing full well that many of them will fail in the next cycle.  I used to smile about it, until the FuPR came around with its retarded "finger of blame" for shit I can't control.

barrym95838
EO/EI144107
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Best Answer I Can Give
 This all goes back to one thing. THEY T WHAT WE DO.
Barry makes a perfect point. SEVERAL! The other guy is a better welder, a better job could and was done.
Yes repairs were made by you, yet the muffler shop put on the CAT, the owner put one parts that you should have, brought it back and you had to finish the repair. WHY? he wanted to use shit ass cheap part when you were trying to make it last more than just spitting out a Cert.

 This goes back to my the lumping of we all cheat. I have no reason to think that does not go on. In fact I believe there are shops, know of shops that the owner stands back and tell his guys what parts to throw at it.

 Thanks for the tip about the camera. Yes I bet they do it. In fact it is cheaper than running a UC, Less set up work.
The UC if you took them to a real court, the proof of knowing that you really wanted to cheat BAR would lose. The fact that you know the rules and you told some one to break those rules, now the BAR has you.
 Sorry to you that I have not offended. Give me time. I will get to you.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

barrym95838
Administrator
Best Answer I Can Give wrote
THEY T WHAT WE DO.
Could I buy a vowel and a few consonants from you, big guy!
... In fact I believe there are shops, know of shops that the owner stands back and tell his guys what parts to throw at it ...
Sad, but very, very true.

barrym95838
EO/EI144107

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Re: undercovers with cameras

Best Answer I Can Give
 Come on man, Early Morning? They Know not what we do.
 Sorry to you that I have not offended. Give me time. I will get to you.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

none
In reply to this post by Ee
A few thoughts and comments, catalytic converter install does not need to be done by a licensed smog tech. It can even be sublet. The diagnoses of a bad cat requires a licensed smog tech though. While I think it should be diagnosed by a qualified tech I think the part can be replaced by a tech who is qualified to replace it.

I think BAR has bigger fish to fry than this and I have heard so many rumors about BAR undercover stuff over the years that isn't true that I don't get too excited about this stuff  any more.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: undercovers with cameras

Barry White
none wrote
A few thoughts and comments, catalytic converter install does not need to be done by a licensed smog tech. It can even be sublet. The diagnoses of a bad cat requires a licensed smog tech though. While I think it should be diagnosed by a qualified tech I think the part can be replaced by a tech who is qualified to replace it.

I think BAR has bigger fish to fry than this and I have heard so many rumors about BAR undercover stuff over the years that isn't true that I don't get too excited about this stuff  any more.
I kind of wish Bar would regulate WHO gets to repair vehicles for failed emission related problems. Would be nice if  only dealerships or test and repair/repair only shops were authorized to do so, not regular mechanic & lube shops. Had a customer call me yesterday thinking I don't want to pass her car because it failed for 02 monitor not ready. She takes it to her Regular mechanic and he can't figure out why it won't complete. So he basically tells her that i'm jiffing her because it should pass with the 02 monitor incomplete. I kindly told her " Lady this is specifically why I told you to go to a test & repair shop or the dealer, not a regular mechanic. Tell your mechanic to look up Bar blast #38964 if he doesn't know the new OBD readiness changes.''
Smog technician in beautiful  San Dimas, ca
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Re: undercovers with cameras

FiendFX
In reply to this post by Ee
You won't believe how many repair stations that are not smog stations, and they do smog repairs ALL the time..
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Re: undercovers with cameras

fartvalve
Smog reference guide section 2 part 2.1.7

"Owners of vehicles that fail smog inspections may repair the vehicles themselves."

All this drama that BAR shoots at us and it is okay for "dingle mc'knob chocker" to diagnose, repair and bubblegum weld a cat on his own car.

Chaps my ass I tells ya!!!
I have chronic pain because stupid hurts!
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Re: undercovers with cameras

locopoco
Last week I failed a 1985 z28 Nissan due to high nox,so as usual I pulled the names and numbers of the Star Test & Repair shops in my area and handed to the customer.

He comes back for retest and it failed for Nox again,when I asked what they did ,he said:They replaced the EGR valve($220) and showed me the old valve,I grabbed the valve and simply gave couple of vac's and it's holding solid no leak nothing.

So now,do you think just because a shop is Star Test & Repair is qualified to do repairs as simple as this?Further checking showed that there is no vac coming to EGR valve at all.
On the same subject,after doing smog for 17 years I know a lot of good knowledgeable Auto mechanics in my area, some previously smog techs,who have the chaps to fix any emission related repairs but hate to deal with BAR and their bureaucratic BS.

I'm a test only with all my ASE certs current for repair,and I know there are a lot of hate for Test Only's industry wise,but there are lot's of bad and unqualified shops on both sides of the aisle.

Good day.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

none
I agree. I see this especially with older European cars. The guys who know how to diagnose and repair them are not in a smog shop but are more qualified than us smog guys in my area anyway.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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Re: undercovers with cameras

Best Answer I Can Give
 My area, for every 1 "Licensed" shop I have 5 better unlicensed shop's.
 Sorry to you that I have not offended. Give me time. I will get to you.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

scanner
In reply to this post by locopoco
locopoco wrote
So now,do you think just because a shop is Star Test & Repair is qualified to do repairs as simple as this?Further checking showed that there is no vac coming to EGR valve at all.
I believe a lot of this happens because of the Alternative ASE certification.   The "techs" go to these classes, not to learn how systems work or how to fix diagnose a problem, they learn how to pass the test.  

At least, those that go with the ASE certification has had some training and experience before taking the test, IMO.

I don't know how many times a car comes in with hundreds of dollars of parts and labor tossed at it, and the vehicle isn't fixed.   I get other shops wanting me to program a PCM because they think it will fix their issue.   Those "techs" don't have a clue.  

I got a Corolla in for an EVAP code.  It had been to another shop where it got the gas cap, vent solenoid, and canister.   There was a missing "O" ring in one of the hard plastic lines.  

I got a Malibu in for an EVAP code.   Another shop had the purge solenoid, vent solenoid, and canister replaced.  If they hooked a scanner to it, they would have seen the fuel tank pressure sensor was at a fixed value.    

It's no wonder why I can't get my 1 to 1.5 hr. diagnostic fee.   We're all the same.   We all are licensed smog techs.   We all have the same ability, so why should the consumer pay my price when the guy down the street will diagnose for free?  

Okay, rant over.  
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

Barry White
In reply to this post by Ee
Yes those auto repair shops with smog related repair knowledge are hidden gems. I was actually just ranting about the shops that think a new converter installed will fix anything and the tune-up guys thinking a tune-up will fix it. I had a 87 dodge lancer come in and Gross Polluted for all 3 emissions and he comes back and it failed again for the same problem. He said he took it to aamco transmissions and they did a tune-up. He said he did not want to go to any of the T&R shops from a list I provided because they charge too much...cheap service isn't good!
Smog technician in beautiful  San Dimas, ca
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Re: undercovers with cameras

FiendFX
In reply to this post by scanner
Dealing with EVAP codes, a smoke machine is your best friend and a scanner with bi-directional control. Easy and efficient. I'm surprised these shop doesn't have a smoke machine.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

scanner
In reply to this post by Barry White
Barry White wrote
 and the tune-up guys thinking a tune-up will fix it.
Right?   When the only tool you own is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.  
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

scanner
In reply to this post by FiendFX
FiendFX wrote
Dealing with EVAP codes, a smoke machine is your best friend and a scanner with bi-directional control. Easy and efficient.
Scanner first, smoke machine to confirm.  

I'm surprised these shop doesn't have a smoke machine.
It's not required.
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

FiendFX
Smoke machine is affordable and versatile. Scanners with bi-directional control can be expensive. But as long as you can close the vent valve, you can smoke to "see" the leak. Makes life easier. When you smoke and there is no leak, time to look at the sensors.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

scanner
FiendFX wrote
Smoke machine is affordable and versatile. Scanners with bi-directional control can be expensive. But as long as you can close the vent valve, you can smoke to "see" the leak.
Most scanners  of the level BAR requires a shop to have will allow you to make a Mode 8 call and close the vent solenoid.  

Makes life easier. When you smoke and there is no leak, time to look at the sensors.
Having the flow meter is probably the most important part of the smoke machine.   Turn the machine on, and watch the ball fall to the bottom.   Turn the flow off, and wait a minute, turn it back on, and if the ball doesn't move, you've got no leak.  

Sometimes the leak is so small, you can't see the smoke.   That where you have to isolate sections of the system, and retest.   I find using soapy water sprayed onto the part that is probably leaking the best way to find something that causes a P0456.
Why make it simple, when it will work equally as well complicated.
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Re: undercovers with cameras

none
In reply to this post by FiendFX
I am a little surprised that a smoke machine isn't a BAR required tool. I have used mine to smoke check for intake manifold leaks at least as many times as I have for EVAP. I also use it to test for any exhaust leaks and have used it to find surprisingly small oil leaks.

Even when I had changed to a test only for a while, I would use it when someone would fail for the evap pressure test and still have a leak after "their mechanic fixed it and it must be my machine that is bad" (twice I had just that said to me). I would hook up my smoke machine to the tank adapter and smoke would start to flow showing them a leak was still there.
I've hit rock bottom but I brought a pick and a shovel and I'm ready to dig!
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